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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Perhaps I misjudged Windoze networking....
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9583 |
This thread is a rant, and will PROBABLY spark all kinds of comments, but I just want to document what I personally have found out, with the last week of playing around with various Linux distros and then a Windoze install for my new NAS build. Much as I want to use Linux, it DOES fight me to share files with Windoze. This could be a SAMBA thing, or it could be a Windoze thing - to be fair to Linux. However, I have a Puppy Linux NAS running on the network(Friendly Bionic x32), and I have now tried to use Puppy x64 in various forms to simply connect to the existing Puppy server - this has failed at every step, despite my being 100% sure I am entering the correct user(root for Puppy) and password. None of the Linux distros would talk to this NAS using SAMBA sharing. Windoze 10 would and still does. I have now tried in the last week, Puppy Linux in MANY forms, most of which would NOT boot on several hardware variations - could simply be that the new versions are not compatible with my older hardware. I did get Bionic x32 to boot, install and run fine, but it crashed when trying to partition and format a new 22TB HDD. Possibly just a simple incompatibility, so I can't really hold an OLD Puppy responsible for that, with a new high-capacity HDD. But the new Puppies would not boot either, and have extra steps you have to complete to finish the install, that earlier puppies did NOT have - specifically the need to edit the GRUB menu file to make it work - which is then refused, cos that file is write-protected... Sigh.... Mint would not install, MX-Linux crashed no matter what I did(perhaps not enough RAM - only 4GB), out of desperation and as yet another experiment, I installed Win8.1 Pro x64. Set a static IP4 IP address, enable network discovery, and the old Puppy server was instantly visible. Enter root password, full access to all the shares. I feel I might have misjudged Windoze networking, for all the complaints it gets. It was EFFORTLESS to get Win8.1 Pro, to see the Puppy box, whereas ANY Linux setup outright refused to talk to it - even though the passwords were correct. This IS a rant, and I AM very frustrated, so perhaps I am not being fair to Linux, but one single install of Win8.1 Pro x64, and I can access and copy anything from the Puppy box, but NONE of the various Linux distros would even allow me to SEE the bloody box on the network - Windowz did. Perhaps I was just lucky? Who knows. Rant over. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| dddns Guru  Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 468 |
Try Webmin for your MX install to have full GUI control over your box and services. This is 20years+ mature and should let you setup and administrate any server service you like on your debian box with a very clear GUI |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7806 |
This sort of thing almost always boils down to permissions. You have to have the correct permissions on the server to allow connections from some or all users. You need permissions for the directories and/or files to allow viewing and possibly modification by some or all users. The client has to have the right permissions for the user to be allowed to use the network and to be allowed to connect to a particular server sometimes. You're quite right, it can be a pain, but it's rock solid once it's sorted out. Linux is designed to be able to handle networking from the ground up, unlike Windows, which is virtually root by default. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 468 |
See here, how nicely you can configure any aspect of SAMBA with Webmin E.g choose the right (domain)server mode, setup SAMBA users and have them synced or not with you linux authentication mechanism |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5016 |
Grogster, Reach out to the Puppy Linux community. Maybe there is some setting in your (bionic) samba server specific tuned for Windows compatibility. I have good experience with the Puppy community. Almost as good as "thebackshed".  Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4031 |
Sounds like some Samba-related setting(s). Has to be permissions-related. Commonly root & network stuff has LESS permission (think about it!), so avoid using Linux root except if essential. Beyond that, I don't know. John |
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| pwillard Guru Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 313 |
I would say... Along with SAMBA, you start using SSHFS. OpenSSH clients are basically part of Linux distros, and OpenSSH Servers can be installed with a quick install (like Samba). For Windows, you can install SSHFS For Windows See Installation details for extra steps. And then for a friendly GUI for Windows, you can install SSHFS WIN Manager Now you can have almost painless network access to Windows and Linux files. Well, of course, that's my opinion... as it works OK for me. Edited 2025-06-24 21:47 by pwillard |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9583 |
All good comments, thanks chums, I will look into some of that. Never heard of SSHFS, so perhaps that is better then trying to use SAMBA as a default - especially if there is a version that will allow the Windoze boxes to also work with it. I will do some reading. On the permissions thing, I hear what you are saying, but how come the Win8.1 box can see the Puppy box fine and can connect to it fine, and some of the other Linux distros I tried, won't even SEE the box? Some Linux's did(MINT on a LIVE USB and MX Linux on a separate box), but when I try to connect, they outright refuse to, even though the username and password ARE correct? (or Windoze would also refuse) Is it perhaps a BIG no-no in the Linux world, to share the root user? Perhaps THAT is the problem with other Linux's not wanting to talk to the Puppy box, as Puppy users don't really exist - you are always root. Perhaps the other Linux's see that as a security risk perhaps? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| EDNEDN Senior Member  Joined: 18/02/2023 Location: United StatesPosts: 137 |
Also... There has been a shift in how Windows treats networked drives. Recently they have changed their methodology. It used to be that unless you had an actual account on the machine you wish to map a drive to, you couldn't easily get a connection. But that was so restrictive they have had to back off of that mindset. Now they are allowing machines (or actually users) that don't have an actual account on the machine to map network drives to machine. The behavior you see is going to depend a lot on which version of Windows is running on the machine. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4031 |
Yes. I can't speak for SAMBA, though, as I've never needed it. From a security point of view, root across a network = a terrible idea. John |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7806 |
root can change everything. It's the "God" account that can reconfigure the entire system. It's never a good idea to run as root. Nothing can stop root or be hidden from it. Create a user with root privileges if you wish. That user can then be used for most system work without having to use the root account. Raspberry Pi took the step of disabling the root account because it's so risky. You can still carry out root commands using sudo, but you (or any running programs or remote users) won't be making them accidentally. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4031 |
Some searches show such as invalid users = root is part of the default smb.conf Which does tend to confirm root sharing is a bad idea and prevented by default. John Edited 2025-06-25 18:36 by JohnS |
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atmega8 Guru Joined: 19/11/2013 Location: GermanyPosts: 724 |
Which smb version does your samba server offer? |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9583 |
SAMBA v2, from what I remember. This might explain why most of the Linux boxes WON'T talk to the Puppy server, cos it is shared as root. I beleive their are ways to add users to Puppy, but by default, it does not use....users.  Then again, Puppy was never designed to be used as a NAS, really, I am bending it a bit to my will.  At this point in time, I probably should be looking at something like OMV etc, which DOES have users, permissions, ZFS(provided you have lots of RAM!).... It would require a different computer though, if I was to go down the ZFS path, as the dinky wee 4GB/8GB machines I have here, won't do ZFS. They'd be OK on ext4 though, I suppose. Also, OMV has it's own web-interface thing, so no need to try to get a VNC server running for remote desktop etc. Some things to think about. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6262 |
I think you need Samba V3 or above for Windows to connect. There were a few setting that can be changed to talk to earlier versions but I am not sure if they still work. VK7JH MMedit |
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| bumble Newbie  Joined: 01/09/2023 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3 |
Changes in SMB networking in recent years have rendered SAMBA/Windows interoperability somewhat 'tricky' If you want a dedicated NAS, you might want to look at SME Server from koozali (koozali.org). This is based on Centos and provides inter alia, comprehensive Windows compatible network facilities. I have used SME Server for more than 20 years for many clients to replace Windows Server (does that even exist any more?). Very stable - I had one client went more than 5 years without a re-boot... If you want to run anything other than SME Server, you would need to implement a VM of some sort. |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 468 |
Hello Grogster! the issue you describe is very old but I never took the time to really look into it, as I'm using NFS which is faster and I don't have any Windows clients. So here are two links which offer an answer: Mint forum1 and 2 I downloaded puppy (very interesting..) and installed it in a VM under virtualbox and bridged the network, so my client and the puppy box are one the same /24 network. on the puppy server side I had to modify the default /etc/samba/smb.conf:  and on the client side: [global] ## Browsing/Identification ### # Change this to the workgroup/NT-domain name your Samba server will part of workgroup = WORKGROUP client min protocol = NT1 #client lanman auth = yes #client ntlmv2 auth = no server min protocol = NT1 #ntlm auth = Yes Now it's possible to: smbtree -S puppypc30324.lan -U Workgroup/root Password for [WORKGROUP\root]: WORKGROUP \\INTEL-DESKTOP Intel-Desktop server (Samba, Ubuntu) \\PUPPYPC30324 Puppy Samba Server and to see them in Nautilus,Nemo or Thunar:  If you can't remember the samba root password, you can use: smbpasswd in a LX shell in puppy.I hope you didn't give up yet! Best wishes If you only want to map a share to your MX, it might be sufficient to use Thunar and enter the share path by hand: smb://puppypc30324/puppyshare/ Edited 2025-06-26 16:53 by dddns |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 468 |
Hello Grogster, your NAS seems to have a 32bit architecture and you want to attach a brand new 22TB HDD. Best chances that this can be done is to use an actual distribution. I tried Open Media Vault with a 32-bit Debian minimal installation. This runs perfect and will integrate perfect in your MX Linux or Windows client and the administration is done business grade professional. I would give this a try, it is really very nice! |
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