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computerguy

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Joined: 26/05/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3

Posted: 08:58pm 25 May 2008

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Ok, well I guess I already did start a bit..

Anyway, I'm Dusty... from the midwest USA. I've been thinking for some time about how to DIY some alternative sources of energy to save some money... My first thought was solar, but I realized quickly that that endeavor would be rather spendy.

In northern IA, southern MN in the USA, they are erecting hundreds of these enormous windmills... and one of the neighbors has a small windmill and some solar panels... so that led me to looking into wind.

After having done some research and reading, I think I've come to the realization that a lot of investment would be needed to get things set up so it would be powering our house tied to the grid. (And possibly feeding some power back..)

So I did a lot of reading here and other websites about building your own windmill. And, being the owner of a computer sales and service shop, I had a couple old laser printers laying around. I decided this afternoon to have my 6 and 4 year old help me take them apart and see what sort of step motors would be present.

Lo and behold, the two laser printers yeilded 3 step motors. One in a really old toner cartridge/drum combo, and the other two driving the printers themselves.

one of the step motors has the following specs on the label:
3 V
Coil 2.3 Ohms
Deg/Step 1.8

The other has the following:
5.4 V
12 Ohm/Phase
7.5 deg/step

The third is smaller... with no specs.

All hooked up to an ammeter show they produce some amps when turned. Cool!

So, the smallest of the three I decided to start to put together into a mini...I got as far as mounting it and making a small prop for it.

Now, way early in my computer learnin, I had some electronics.. but I really have no clue as to what to do from here...

So, other than introducing myself... I have a couple questions.

1. Do these step motors have any actual practical purpose? I guess I would need to define practical, but I'm interested to hear what you all might have to comment.

2. Do DIY windmills have much purpose other than hobbying? now, don't take this as an insult, it's quite the opposite.. I was having a lot of fun with the limited knowledge and skill that I have. But my reading and research has led me to believe there is as of yet no financially practical way of connecting a windmill to a house "on the grid" OR getting enough "juice" to really make an impact...

I'm going to attach a couple photos of my motors and my first little project once I figure out how to do that here.. ;)

Thanks for reading!
Dusty

"Any damn fool can make something complex, it takes a genius to make something simple." - Woody Guthrie

"Let's Roll..." - Never Forget 9/11/2001

computerguy

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Joined: 26/05/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3

Posted: 09:13pm 25 May 2008

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Here's the first step motor I mentioned...

When turning the shaft, it feels as tho this one would be able to produce "juice" at a pretty darn low RPM (but again, I have NO idea what I'm doing or talking about)

Here's the second one....

And the start of my first windmill.. with the third motor.

"Any damn fool can make something complex, it takes a genius to make something simple." - Woody Guthrie

"Let's Roll..." - Never Forget 9/11/2001

Bolty

Regular Member

Joined: 03/04/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 81

Posted: 10:40pm 25 May 2008

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" Do these step motors have any actual practical purpose? I guess I would need to define practical, but I'm interested to hear what you all might have to comment."

Sure, with fiddling, you may be able to get these to produce energy from the wind. However by their apparent size in the photo, they are going to be very limited in the amount of power that they will be able to produce! The size of the copper wire in the motors would be very restrictive. These definitely would be in the hobbyist class!

"Do DIY windmills have much purpose other than hobbying? now, don't take this as an insult, it's quite the opposite.. I was having a lot of fun with the limited knowledge and skill that I have. But my reading and research has led me to believe there is as of yet no financially practical way of connecting a windmill to a house "on the grid" OR getting enough "juice" to really make an impact"

It depends what you mean by make an impact! Home grown grid connect wind turbines that produce significant power do exist. Gordon has a home made (not F&P) turbine that is grid connected through his own custom made circuitry to a commercial grid connect inverter, His system (combined with solar PV) produces more power than he uses, therefore making him free of future power bills.

You can read Phill's posting about his grid connect wind system. Whether or not you consider these projects as "making an impact" depends on where you are coming from! Clearly from Gordon's perpective, he is making a significant saving in future energy bills. He is also no longer using energy that produces waste products, using valuable fossil fuels, or contributing to CO2 emmissions. I would call that significant!

If your question is whether or not it will be cheaper in the long run, I am sure that any cost analysis at a personal level would not take into account the cost to our grandchildren, that scanty disregard for the future of the planet will have!

In my situation, I am currently at the first stage of investigating the viability of wind at my property. I will be having a 1Kw PV grid connect system installed in the next few weeks. Arriving from China during the next week, is a 1kw commercial turbine. I do not yet know whether it will be worthwhile connecting it to an additional grid connect inverter, due to the cost of the inverter. I intend to set up the turbine as stand alone, connected to a bank of batteries and a dummy load. I will log the performance of the turbine. The purpose of this will be to establish potentially how much power I will be able to generate in my location from the wind! At this stage I am doubtful that this turbine will be big enough to produce sufficient power to warrant the cost of the inverter. I do not expect to produce power as cheaply as I can buy it from our power company. However it would be bad economically if my system ends up costing $1 per kwh.

If you were to scale this project up by using a bigger turbine (larger Chinese turbines, even bigger than 10kw are available at reasonably cheap prices) the costs of inverters, controllers, wiring etc. all escalate dramatically. Other issues such as necessary space around the turbine for non turbulent wind flow, noise, height restrictions, structural considerations, engineering requirements, life expectancy of the turbine, ........etc., all mean that it is better for me to establish this smaller project first.

Your efforts with these laser printer motors demonstrates to me that you are a hobbyist experimenter. If these efforts produce personal satisfaction, then what else could be better for your soul! Go for it and enjoy! Knowing that your understanding has deepened would certainly be personally rewarding. Knowing that you may be able to use less energy through this understanding may even be more rewarding!

Hope that my thoughts are of some use to you!

Bolty

computerguy

Newbie

Joined: 26/05/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3

Posted: 10:52pm 25 May 2008

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"Your efforts with these laser printer motors demonstrates to me that you are a hobbyist experimenter. If these efforts produce personal satisfaction, then what else could be better for your soul! Go for it and enjoy! Knowing that your understanding has deepened would certainly be personally rewarding. Knowing that you may be able to use less energy through this understanding may even be more rewarding! "

Thanks Bolty for your comments!!

I think in my explanation I left things maybe too general...

I really never meant that the little motors I pulled out of those laser printers to have a potential to power the house. I was having fun playing with getting a prop constructed and mounting.. I'm a great tinkerer when things are well understood.. but once I get to that stage where I'm "way over my head", it's tough to stay inspired.

I was hoping that I could show some use for these small motors as a windmill that maybe did a bit more than charge a couple AA batteries, but if that's the potential.. that's no problem! I accept that and just am trying to come to an understanding of what size motors, etc are needed to power what type of "stuff".

I guess in the shorter term, my definition of "make an impact" is on our pocket book. I'm a very thrifty guy, and want to know the costs and payback period... I want to save money on energy bills.

On the other hand.. I do understand the need to use less fossil fuels and non renewable resources (even though I'm a "computer guy", I did graduate from college with a natural resources and biology degree ;) )

I guess I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the size and totality of the components needed to build a system that can say power an electric water heater, run the lights in the house, or power the whole house... That is where I'm really foggy.

I'm looking forward to playing with this more... even if it is just to light a 15 w light bulb or something.. (I'm already trying to figure out how I can sabotage the wife's treadmill so I can have the motor in it. ;) )

Any more comments and/or discussion on this is greatly appreciated!

Thanks again!
Dusty

"Any damn fool can make something complex, it takes a genius to make something simple." - Woody Guthrie

"Let's Roll..." - Never Forget 9/11/2001

Steve9R

Regular Member

Joined: 24/01/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 72

Posted: 11:32pm 25 May 2008

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Hey Dusty..

yeah its going to be a steep learning curve for you if you havent done much with renewable energy..

my suggestion is to firstly got and have a read through the

http://www.tasmanenergy.com.au site, which even though is based on solar power, will give you all the fundamentals you'll need if you wish to go to wind power..

Here you can work out your load sizing's and perhaps make some fundamental changes to the way you use power now before you invest in a renewable system..

its all good fun though if you've got the motivation ! ;)

good luck!
Steve
Edited by Steve9R 2008-05-27

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