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Forum Index : Windmills : F & P wind generator
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fernbrae 1 Newbie  Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hi Gentlemen , have built a Lenz 2 vertical wind gen and have found a F&P motor old 42 pole type ( 60 series I think from reading the forums ) . I have rewired it as per the imnstructions and used some rectifiers to go from Ac to Dc output . My question is , when I put a 50 watt quartz halogen globe ( car headlight globe ) across the pos and neg DC outputs and spun the F&P with a drill it blew the crap out of the globe very quickly ????? After this I put the multi meter acrsoo the dc output and found that , in fact , it was putting out over 80 volts depending how fast I spun the F&P. How will this charge my 12 volt battery bank , even with a controller this will cook the batteries super quick. Even spun by hand I can get 12 to 13 volts without much effort. Can some one explain how , or what , I need to do to control the voltage output ???? Many thanks in anticipation . loving life lets be active . |
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dazler Newbie Joined: 21/10/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 37 |
well done, read this HERE and HERE Daz |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Thanks Daz, these pages were I got all the information for the rewire and also have filed the poles for the decogging ( which has worked to a degree ) as it still has a small amount of cogging on start up , you can feel it when you turn by hand. The main issue is the amount of voltage DC that this monster produces ??? I do not want to cook my battery bank 2 volt cells 1200 amp hours I have 6 for 12 volt. regards . loving life lets be active . |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5119 |
Hi fernbrae The faster you spin the F&P, the higher its output voltage. Your electric drill will spin the F&P much much faster than the Lenz windmill will. Depending on its size, the Lez will run between 20 and 100 RPM ( guess-timate ). Try spinning the F&P by hand at about 60 RPM ( one revolution per second ) to see what voltage you get. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
loving life lets be active . |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hi Gentlemen, sorry up loaded the chinese mill I have up already , after a remake it produces good power and traks the wind much better. The photos are of the lenz2 that I have just made , this is just the mock up as I am awaiting the steel disks and then I can make the metal arms and weld it all together. this will be the permanent item , hope it producs as much power as the chinese mill. thanks for a great site for lots of great information,and hours of reading. Thanks Glen for your input. Kind regards Greg loving life lets be active . |
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| dazler Newbie Joined: 21/10/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 37 |
Hi Fernbrae 1 tell us what power do u get from the above lenz2 mill? and what rpm cheers daz |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hi Daz, this is a bit of an unknown as yet,today I had it hooked up as it would be in a permanent situation and it was very windy here in rowville . Actually we had a storm come through, prior to this the gen was running at about 20 to 30 RPM and showing abput 6.3 volts , as the storm hit the gen went crazy and as doing about 100 rpm and then in a momement it was pushed over and some what destroyed . Alas it was a porototype and I am waiting for the matal circles to be produced and then it can be welded together and be bullit proof . Please note these figures are taken on the ground ,not up in the air. However after this happened I put the gen in the work bench and spun it up with the drill , I noticed ( with it connected to the battery bank ) that the power needed to spin it up so as it made some amperage ( only about 6 or 7 amps ) was huge .The drill nearly had a hemerage after I gave it to it to see how much it would put out , the more it produced the more the torque it required . Lots of power needed to make power.!!! I will up load some pics to see what I mean. Reards Greg 
loving life lets be active . |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5119 |
Hi Greg Sorry to hear about the mishap. Its a nice looking machine so far, will be interresting to see how it runs. Once you get it back together, measure the output voltage and get back to us. The rewire you've done might give a lower voltage than you need for this application, but thats easily fixed with a soldering iron. Thats a 80 series stator, and you've done a very neat job on the rewire. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Jarbar Senior Member  Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hello Greg, I am into building a VAWT and see from one of your post's that you live around the corner in Rowville.Being in Ferntree Gully I wouldn't mind catching up one day to swap notes.Keep up the good work it's great fun and very theraputic.Well done so far.Love that wind. Anthony "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hello Anthony, what sort of Vawt are you interested in ?? I have to get some steel and make a proper frame so as this can be bullit proof when I put it on a pole. This will take some more as I go back to work on Tuesday,after a much needed xmas break. Perhaps we can swap some notes when we have the time , my place is near wellington and Napoleon , I am sure you know where that is.?? Let me know what are your plans for a gen, are you going to use a F&P alternator They seem pretty good provided you do the rewire to suit the application.( as I am told ,as this is very new to me ) Hi Glen , you mentioned that there may be a better way for the wiring that may provide better volts at a lower speed , will this still give some amperage as with the big batteries they are amp hungry to give good charge . The solar I have up also gives me up to 30 amnps in the right conditions ( less that 23 c) as when this goes over this temp the controller keeps the in put to just about 20 amps exactly. Just a little extra about what I am trying to acheive ,produce enough power to run the house of an inverter ,3000 watts may be enough with a 9000 watt surge , I wll see how this works very soon . Regards Greg loving life lets be active . |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hello Greg, being more comfortable with turning,welding ect I am yet to rewire any F&P generators.Although i have four waiting in the Garage.My main aim to date has been to try and draw my own conclusions as to what hasn't been tried and to then build a working model or prototype.I suppose we are all doing this to varying degrees.Due to health issues it can be a long time between contemplation and implementation.But I have something that rotates endlessly in my front yard at the moment.I know what my next modification is but just waiting for my battery to recharge.I also need some rewiring.It's been more than 2 months since my last foray.Meanwhile I attempt to digest all that is posted here with most of the electrical stuff whizzing over my head.So I would be very keen to see your efforts and happy to show you mine.I live opposite Fairhills Secondary College in Scoresby Rd .In Bursaria Ave near the corner,the house fenced with the Fifty metres of Grey Polycarbonate sheets which was planned as a Solar collector when I installed it.Another unfinished project.As my wife noted Greg's garage is a lot tidier than yours Anthony.(Grumble,Grumble).I can help if you need to turn down the diameter of the bearing assembly as opposed to grinding it ect.Thank you for the photos of your efforts,very inspiring.So drop in one day.Not sure about how best to leave contact details other than above ie phone or email for fear of pest calls. Anthony. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hi Guys , just a quick question about the F&P ,when re wired as per the forum ,the normal way for 12 volt, groups of 6 on a 42 pole stator , back to 3 phase . What would you expect to see when you spin it up with a drill as far as voltage and amperage , loaded as it would be when connected to a battery bank. I have obtained another alternator and rewired it ,this will be the second genny for my Lenz when I get all the frame welded. I will fit one on the top and one on the bottom.This should stop the need for a braking system. Anyway when spun up attached to the batteries through the rectifier , the voltage was about 16 volts and acheived a max of 10 amps. Is this what you should expect ?? Can I expect then with 2 alternators , every thing being perfect , about 20 amps.?? This should be up and running in the next 2 weeks. will keep you posted . Rgds Greg loving life lets be active . |
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Tinker Guru  Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
20 amps??? just how big a Lenz have you got there  Klaus |
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Zank Newbie Joined: 26/06/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 14 |
Hi Greg Quote "Sorry up loaded the chinese mill I have up already , after a remake it produces good power and tracks the wind much better." Can you tell me what you did to improve the wind tracking on the chinese mill? Regards Jon What goes around .... |
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| fernbrae 1 Newbie Joined: 19/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
Hi Gentlemen, missed the forum whilst down, I have a question ,if I use 2x F&P alternators ,can I use ond rectifier and run the two into the one see picture. 
Will this work OK ??? Rgds Greg loving life lets be active . |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5119 |
Hi Greg. Yes, if your careful and get them both in phase with eachother. If its hard to turn, then you got it wrong. Its easier just to buy two recitifiers. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5119 |
Repost of missing posts fernbrae 1 wrote..... Hi Jon, i added a bit extra to the tail ,I will upload a picture tonight .It now traks the wind very well ,although it furls quite late ,with the electronic box disconnected this does not electricly brake anymore . With the box attached ( when purchased ) it used to brake all the time even before it made any power ,was useless. Just on another note ,Klaus,if you had bothered to read what was written and the question that was asked perhaps you could have offered an answer ,not a snide remark. Simple questions ,only require a simple answer. Rgds Greg Tinker wrote..... Yes Greg, as you said, just a simple answer would suffice to the question. But you choose to denounce it as a "snide remark". Did it ever occur to you that I, as a builder of a Lenz VAWT, would be interested in your Lenz VAWT size? If you had thought about my question for a while before letting loose on the keyboard..... and then I posted something about everyone settling down and keeping it nice. Glenn fernbrae 1 wrote..... I will fit one on the top and one on the bottom.This should stop the need for a braking system. Anyway when spun up attached to the batteries through the rectifier , the voltage was about 16 volts and acheived a max of 10 amps. Is this what you should expect ?? Can I expect then with 2 alternators , every thing being perfect , about 20 amps.?? Can someone tell me wether this is the amps you will expect/ get from ther F&P . If you double up with 2 is it fair to expect double the amps. In answer to the size of my Lenz ,I have made the wing according to the formula ,for a size of 1200 high and 1200 wide but will make it with 900 wide as this makes it rotate faster ( have proved this untill it broke with the timber supports ) wait til it is all welded up and on the roof will tell the story. Rgds Greg davef wrote..... 160 Watts and about 50% efficiency says you are producing about 320Watts. For a known wind speed and some published power versus size curves for your machine does this sound reasonable? What RPM are you spinning it up to? What is the equivalent in KPH of wind speed? >If you double up with 2 is it fair to expect double the amps. But wouldn't the 2nd F&P put more load on the mill and therefore slow it down? Guess it really depends how much the 1st F&P slows down the no-load rotation speed. My 2cents worth. fernbrae 1 wrote..... Thank you for your comments, much appreciated. My theory was ,my lenz spun the F&P up very quickly and was not much effort to get it to make power . Here we do get some very strong winds constantly during our winter period.So I could not easily figure out a brtaking system and it has bags of torque so, in my mind may as well use another F&P on top as this will serve as a brake and will keep the monster in check. The extra torque required to sip up the second alternator will keep the seppd down. I understand that I will not get max power out of both alternators ,but the upside ( hopefuly ) is that it will nor destroy itself, and a single alternator if I can restrict the speed . Hope this is some sort of logic. RGDS Greg The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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