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RevUpWind Regular Member Joined: 03/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 60
Posted: 09:34pm 05 Feb 2009
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Has been awhile since posted here but over last few months have managed to get up two dual stator mills up
and quite happy with the result.
This joint project between one technically minded and one practically minded has been much fun and many
challenges.
Have spent likely no more than couple of hundred dollars and used mostly salvaged parts and six F&P's to put
together. Blades are all aluminum and seem to work well. Wiring of stators is not my bit but are mix of
star and delta.
My question re batteries, we have two cloride sodium and two lead HD batteries, maybe 400amp total. Both mills
through one controller. Is it not so good to run mixed batteries? Run a 1200watt inverter which runs shed etc.
Some pics. In moderate wind, below 10km with two mills getting 5amps and up to 35amps in 30km+ winds.
Cheers for now goin fishin.
PeterEdited by RevUpWind 2009-02-24....River Heads - Australia
The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 09:44pm 05 Feb 2009
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I think these were supposed to be inserted above.
Good stuff, shame about the trees.
......oztulesEdited by oztules 2009-02-07Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
RevUpWind Regular Member Joined: 03/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 60
Posted: 04:58am 06 Feb 2009
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Thanks for that Oztules, somehow missed how to fully upload my pics. Just used the upload pics button.
Yes trees are behind us on vacant block and will go when someone builds there. Most of our wind North to
Southeast comes from front of us as we face the sea with not much in front.
Peter
River Heads
Edited by RevUpWind 2009-02-24....River Heads - Australia
The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going.
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 05:44am 06 Feb 2009
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Try this button next time. It uploads and inserts it in your response:
..........oztulesVillage idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
sPuDd Senior Member Joined: 10/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 251
Posted: 11:15am 06 Feb 2009
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Oztules - P i i i i i gs in S P A A A A C E !!!
Seems like a Muppets thing developing here - I'm all for it It should work ...in theory
Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1461
Posted: 11:27am 06 Feb 2009
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Well as da guys are changin avatars whynot and YES the missus said this one suited me to a tee...
oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686
Posted: 11:55am 06 Feb 2009
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hehehe .... the world is a bit too serious at the moment, a bit of levity doesn't really do any harm at all. Bryan, that was my second choice
.......oztulesVillage idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
SparWeb Senior Member Joined: 17/04/2008 Location: CanadaPosts: 196
Posted: 07:27pm 06 Feb 2009
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<--- Everyone says I'm such a square... Steven T. Fahey
SparWeb Senior Member Joined: 17/04/2008 Location: CanadaPosts: 196
Posted: 07:32pm 06 Feb 2009
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... More appropriate to the topic: Thanks for posting the pictures of the windmills. Congratulations on the twins!
Are there any major differences between the two mills? The tails look different, for example. Seeing two identical machines side-by-side makes me think of a plethora of little things that I could change on one, and then compare to the other, to see what difference they make.Steven T. Fahey
RevUpWind Regular Member Joined: 03/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 60
Posted: 10:28am 07 Feb 2009
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Just one big happy group and clever too. Have to say that without you would not have a clue how to get an F&P together.
SparWeb the mill with firey tail went up 3 months ago and the red, white & blue last week.
A lot of mast and hardware were a case of beer from local Ergon Electrical supply contractor. Nice fully hot dipped galvanized HD pipe. New mill is a local tree which is working great.
Both blades are aluminium and basically same shape, although first was done on a brake and second one rolled, on a fence post would you believe.
Both tails work fine, main change I made that have not seen was to use the F&P plastic bearing mounts and shortened shaft welded into the mast using spacers to allow the wire down the inside of mast. This works very smoothly.
Used 90mm RHS for yaw and main shaft mounts.
It is interesting to see them work together and bring up the averages from 2-5amps to 5-10amps and peaking at 35amps. With some better cabling on latest should even get better.
As for wiring first Flame mill #1 stator is 2x6 Delta with two poles tmp unused #2 stator is 2x4 Delta and 2x3 Star wired in series to make a 6 pole Star and the newby Red, White & Blue #1 is 2x7 Delta and #2 is 2x4 Delta
and 2x3 Star. This one achieves higher RPM without stalling and does not idle aimlessly in light wind.
Flame mill idles slowly in low wind without effectively making much power so will change to same as new mill.
It is good to have two mills to compare. Edited by RevUpWind 2009-02-24....River Heads - Australia
The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going.
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127
Posted: 12:26pm 07 Feb 2009
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Hi RevUpWind,
Even though you have not eluded, but I am assuming this is a 24V system.
Gordon.
become more energy aware
robbo Regular Member Joined: 25/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 71
Posted: 08:19pm 07 Feb 2009
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Hey Revup Wind.
Very good read. You've done well. It would be interesting to see what watts you get from both. I initially had a dual project going using 50mm pipe but this had problems with alignment of the stators due to a slightly bent pipe. I, only last night, ground done two F&P bearing holders to fit 75mm sqr RHS.
Wont be long now.
javascript:AddSmileyIcon('')
I am using PVC blades for a long time now, from 12 inch pipe, and I they run very well. Have had some very fast rpms due to a 15 amp fuse blowing one day, I'd say 700 rpms at least. 2.4 meter, 3blade prop.
Have you had any experience with these, in comparison to your "light" aluminum blades ?
Anyway, Keep up the good work, enjoy !
Edited by robbo 2009-02-09"the Earth was not given to us, by our fathers, rather, it is lent to us by our children".
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127
Posted: 11:13pm 07 Feb 2009
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Hi RevUpWind,
I see no evidence of wires inside the mast/tower in your photos. I see the plastic yaw bearing mount, but photos 1 and 3 show wires running down the outside of the mast/tower.
As Robbo has mentioned, It would be interesting to know the Watts. Are these series80 stators? Have you seen the windmills furl yet? How much of the inverter loading power do the windmills supply?
The wind certainly works better for me when it comes from the sea. The land winds are more turbulent and the air is warmer and has lower humidity.
Will need to look up these sodium batteries!
Gordon.Edited by GWatPE 2009-02-09become more energy aware
RevUpWind Regular Member Joined: 03/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 60
Posted: 12:58pm 08 Feb 2009
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Just discovered you do not go back a page after typing a reply...duh Now as I was saying, Hi Robbo, yes have tried 150mm pvc in a six blade config and 2 or 3 using 250mm in a 3 blade configuration with a few experimental shapes. All
went well but for a piece of one that ended up in the neighbors yard Have not tried 300mm as did not come across any, but would like to if I could find some thick
enough. The aluminum is marine grade from a new and a used tinny seat. They are light and strong so quite happy with them.
At present setup have seen 650watts @14 volts. It is a 12volt system Gordon and loading to inverter depends on what wind we are getting. When getting wind thru day am
running small freezer and our frost free fridge.
Sorry about the sodium batteries typo should of course have been calcium chloride. Now sodium would be interesting Stators are both 80 series and will wire both the same. First mill, Flame has a pipe mast and the wire goes into the side of the yaw mount and down thru pipe. There is
a hole already in the bottom of plastic bearing mount that I drilled out to 13mm. The wire is a rope from the tail to the ground to stop rotation which does not seem
to be a problem here anyway. The new mill is on a timber mast so just a loop and down a guy wire.
New mill has not furled yet but the Flame one has at approx. 30km+ which new mill has not seen yet.
Close but no peanut butter sandwich!
Peter
Edited by RevUpWind 2009-02-24....River Heads - Australia
The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going.
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127
Posted: 11:03pm 08 Feb 2009
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In my book, 35A @ say 14V gives 490W, not 650W.
What is the rotor dia on each mill?
Gordon. become more energy aware
RevUpWind Regular Member Joined: 03/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 60
Posted: 12:02am 09 Feb 2009
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Gordon, you are quite right. Please bear with me, my tech son does not type and I should listen harder. It has only been a few days up and have seen 37.5 amps from total both mills. So 14.5V x 37.5amps=543.75watts. Both mills are 2.4m (8') and still tweaking blades to avoid high speed stall, hence tip spoilers(Guerney Flaps), etc. New mill has not seen 30kts yet, but close and not furled or stalled. With the two mills it is more about the extra KWH generated per day and this is of course doubled. Would be good to have more batteries to store these KWH. On another note our controller cuts in 12.5 and drops to dump at 14.5. Reason being that you are limiting the amount of power wasted in the dump, especially when under inverter load. To further answer your earlier question re inverter it depends on how much draw down it is causing. In case of fridge and freezer in high wind they match the draw down and in fact charge the batteries.
We press on.
Peter
Edited by RevUpWind 2009-02-24....River Heads - Australia
The wind blows wherever it wishes; you hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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