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Forum Index : Windmills : Improving Chinese Mills
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| KTee Newbie  Joined: 14/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 8 |
Don’t know if many are interested, but after the good advise on quietening the Chinese wind mill I thought I’d forward the improvements my brother and I have done to our 2, 200w 24V mills supplied by Jaycar, $450 each. A bit of history. We bought our first mill 13 months ago, and set it up 50m from the shed on its own tower. Not the best of positions but this was the amount of cable we had at the time. Did not pay too much attention to assembly but every thing went together OK. First day, either we blew up the controller OR it did not work out of the box. So into the junk heap, find an old 12V 55amp car alternator, this was stripped down to extract the rectifier 40 minutes later, the old rectifier has a new life with mill ONE. Old alternators are cheap, available in the bush and easy to check – just do a diode check in each direction on each diode to see if they only pass in one direction. Don’t have them connected to power when you do this. We don’t have a dump load on our mills, since our battery bank is so big the maximum input of mill ONE of 10 to 12 amps is only a trickle feed. It’s an effort to get the batteries to float. Battery bank - 2 old fork truck batteries 36 V 800 Ah, cut and spliced to form 2 24V banks. These battery packs were dead when we got them for $50 each six years ago. Find and jump out the dead cells (usually only 1 or 2 cells) instant deep cycle BIG battery bank. Power monitoring is performed via a PL20 regulator using an external shunt resistor Last year for October to December mill ONE averaged 20 Ah per day. 1 month ago we bought another wind mill. Built a new 15m tower from old steel light poles. Hopping for considerably better results we moved 60m further up the hill. (Got hold of more second hand industrial orange 4 core cable) We took more time with the assembly this time, found the blade mount holes were way out of align, quite a bit of filing to get the blades to sit flush to the hub and properly spaced. At this point we super glued 1.5 dia wiper snipper cord down the back of the blade as suggested by the forum. Rewired, the system for the 2 mills, another car alternator (did not even take its own controller out of the box) Well apples aren’t oranges, same goes for wind mills. Mill TWO on its lovely new high tower was spinning faster than mill ONE, good. NO, yes mill TWO was spinning faster but was not making any power? (Mill TWO is considerably quieter than mill ONE even going faster). Mill TWO produces more power in high winds than Mill ONE however the old mill starts producing earlier and is better in light winds. We suspect that one is in delta and the other is in star. This is becoming a book, not a quick note to the forum. Things can be expanded later if people want to read the ranting of a mad power generator. THE MODFICATIONS We observed that mill ONE tended to hunt around with the wind, to be expected at only 4.5m above ground and so low on the hill. But it also seemed to start furling early and not maintain output in strong winds. The basic geometry of the tail is wrong, in moderate winds the thrust on the blades allow the mill to turn slightly away from the wind (as if starting to furl) The tail is not holding the mill into the wind. Now reading the guru of small wind turbines, Hugh Piggott he suggests the tail should have a positive offset so that under moderate winds the mill is held into the wind slightly to the opposite side of furling. Mod 1. - Bend the tail arm 10 degrees away from the axis of the wind mill. While mill ONE was down we checked the geometry. The rack angle on the tail pivot is only 3 degrees, too small to allow the tail weight to control the furling of the mill. Mod 2. – Added %50 more weight to the tail. Changed metal tail for a piece of ply wood twice the area and heavier. (at present we are only 0.5 kg heavier than the orignal vane but could do with more weight) RESULTS, mill ONE is more stable in moderate winds and is holding a higher output in gusty winds during furling operations. |
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| KTee Newbie Joined: 14/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 8 |
Picture of mill ONE, before tail mods 
Sorry about the changes, trying to get the pic size right |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Good read KTee. Sounds like you are getting a good understanding of those cheap windmills. With a bit of work and modification they can be made to work well. I think maybe they should be sold as a "Kit Windmill, needs some work." Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Ha, ha , Kit Windmill - needs some work --spot on ,Glenn.. Anyhow,, kt , nice to hear from you and great to hear from what a "hands-on" brothers " have done . Keep us informed ,you are in the rural(sheep) area ??. why not try a F&P or a Seeley, you both sound like you can "do-it" Cheers,' Bruce Bushboy |
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| slick Newbie Joined: 23/06/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
Gday K Tee thanks for the info ive got one about to put it up an see if it works have had to go away to work to get some more bucks any tips will be much appreciated my questions are on the 200 watt yeouniao windmill site thanks slick will be home in a couple of weeks |
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| slick Newbie Joined: 23/06/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
Gday K Tee how u goin? Im back an ready 2 get this china windmill up an running. Im a smallcrops farmer and dont get much spare time so i dont want 2 put it up an down 2 many times. How do u go about checking the angle of the tail pivot ? Also what thckness plywood used on tail and was it the same size or larger ? 
Ill use the controller an see if it works an go from there . be ready 4 questions.  TY bye 4 now Slick |
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| KTee Newbie Joined: 14/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 8 |
Hello Slick Checking the tail angle. hold the tail arm against the stop on the housing and sight along the axis of the generator. The tail should move away from the axis by appoximately 10 degrees I've got a few pic's for you, they say 'a pictures worth a thousand words' 
you can see how Dave (my brother) cut the tail arm to get the added 10 degrees. just weld a filler in the slot and a splash of paint if you are so inclined. The tail size 
The tail was cut from some scrap ply in the shed. I think it was 7mm thick 
Pic of the 2 mills, mill ONE is in the fore ground. Slick, you might consider changing the bearings on the mill before you put it up. We have just changed mill ONE, after 18 months it developed a growl. Kevin |
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Art_ Newbie Joined: 22/10/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
They have gotten worse because the jigs are wearing. They started out much better quality than if you buy them today. Last one looked like the bolt through the hub wasn't centered, but that might have just been my angle while inspecting, but the blades and mounting holes definately weren't aligned. Do they come with the mast that is in the picture? Given the info in the above post, and a bit of extra work, Jaycar's return policy, I still say very good value for money. If not actually, then potentially. |
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Trev Guru Joined: 15/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 676 |
Hi Art, There is 4.5m of tower piping, guy wire, clamps etc come as standard with the machine. The units are available in 12v or 24v. The setup instructions are terrible, but can be worked out. The controllers are not very good, most buyers use a different controller/regulator. If you are interested in buying one or more send me a private email for a really good price. Trev @ drivebynature.com |
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| Art_ Newbie Joined: 22/10/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
Thanks, but I don't have anywhere to put one. I worked at Jaycar for a while, and saw a few come back for tinkering with. If you get good prices a Jaycar I could talk to you about panels though? If not actually, then potentially. |
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ericvr Newbie Joined: 24/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 37 |
Hi Ktee, Do you still have the controllers that blew up? (First day, either we blew up the controller OR it did not work out of the box. So into the junk heap,) if so I could have a look at them, I realize that it is now 5 months since that happened, but also were they not under warranty? if so you should have taken them back to Jaycar for repair or replacement. But in any case I can have a look at them for you. Where are you located in Australia? I am in Laverton in Victoria. So all you got to loose is the postage as I had a look at the controller boxes and they do not weigh much at all. it is now 0750 on Tuesday the 27th November 2007 as I noticed that the automatic date & time stamping is not the Eastern Daylight Savings Time. You can see my post onder "combined Wind Power and Solar Power". Ericvr limited greenie |
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| Art_ Newbie Joined: 22/10/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
Trev, I think the part of the forum that sends emails is broken.. I din't recieve my copy of the mail I sent you. Hopefully, you can reach me via the www button here. The main page of my site has an email button. Cheers, Art. If not actually, then potentially. |
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| petanque don Senior Member  Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
There is one of these near Myponga south of Adelaide. When I first saw it was very nosy and seemed to track the wind poorly. Then there was a period that it was not on the mast. Now it has returned and it is significantly quieter and seems to just sit there and spin. It still seems to have the standard tail. |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Hi KTee I would like to add your Chinese windmill experience and modifications to the web site, the pages about how we modified the blades to make them quiet, would that be OK. Your name would be added of course. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| KTee Newbie Joined: 14/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 8 |
Glen OK by me to add to the site. After Christmas I'll put up some shots of the generator windings. General note - we have recorded 165 Ahr at 24V for one day from the 2 mills, was a bit breezy that day. Ericvr We only blew up 1 of the controllers, that was about 2 years ago. The other one is still in its box. Thanks for the repair offer, but I was going to used some parts for other projects. Both mills are rectified with old alternator sets and controlled thru PL20 controller dump circuit. I'm located in Melbourne but the farm is in the Southern Table Lands NSW near Yass. Regards to all, have a safe silly season. Kevin |
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| ericvr Newbie Joined: 24/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 37 |
Thanks Kevin for the info, I have checked the heatsink and found burrs, removed them and reassembled the the diodes onto the heatsink with the appropriate heatsink compound. I will put it in service when my brother in law goes back up to Dereel hopefully on the 23 of December this year (2007). I will then have some pictures of the installation. In the mean time have a safe and happy Christmas Regards to all Eric van Rhijn limited greenie |
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| slick Newbie Joined: 23/06/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
G,day K Tee,u still around?Im about 2 get organised?? Im trying to work out tis 10 deg. with the tail. i got a straight edge lined up with the line down the centre of the underside of the blue plastic shrouding. From the start of the 50x25mm rhs tail to the end which is 1180mmi have 22mm. the gap at body end is 20mm at the end it is 42mm.How many deg is that?? 
ty slick |
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| BUGS Newbie Joined: 12/04/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 21 |
Hi, Can some one tell me the sizes or numbers on the bearings for the Chinese 300 W 12 V wind mill from Jaycar. I've had one flying for about a year now and I can hear the bearings getting noisie.Would like to order the bearings before I take it down. Thanks Ivan  BUGS |
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