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Forum Index : Windmills : HHO Instead of Wind
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| Muecci Newbie  Joined: 02/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 2 |
Hi, I am new to this forum and was wondering if anyone has looked into substituting wind with HHO gas. I have been working on an HHO generator recently and thought about using the HHO gas to heat water/create steam. Then feed the steam into a turbine generator like what's on the Homegrown windmills. The HHO gas is created from water by using electrolysis. I still have alot of research to do but if anyone has looked into this please let us know what you've found. Thanks, Brad  |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
HHO gas ??? is that Santa Claus gas,,ho,ho,o,,, Sorry,mate,,but us old farts don't know you young squirts lingo... But have fun,anyway.. Bushie Bushboy |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5117 |
Hi Brad You need a steam turbine, very different to wind turbine technology. Do a google for steam turbine or tesla turbine. You also need to understand losses associated with energy conversion, ie the energy you put in to the electrolysis is more that you can get out when you burn the HHO, so you have lost. Add another step and you loose more energy. Too many steps and you end up with very little. Instead of using electricity to make brown gass, then burn the brown gas to make steam, to drive a turbine, to generate electricty, why not just get rid of all those steps and just use the electricity you had in the first place. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Gill Senior Member  Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
G'day Brad, Welcome to the site mate. As Gizmo says, you have just gone in a big circle. You could go in a smaller circle by generating your HHO(for Bruce's benefit HHO is Hydrogen,Hydrogen and Oxygen as free atoms no longer combined as molecule of water.also known as Brown's Gas)then feeding a fuel cell to produce electricity more directly. Either of these process is a waste of time as it uses energy not makes it unless you have some ulterior motive that you have not stated like energy storage for example. If you imagine you can make energy from water then forget it. I don't think there would be many, if any, on this site who would entertain such ideas. If however you are aware of this already and plan to meet other needs then best to make that clear first up. was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| KiwiJohn Guru Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: New ZealandPosts: 691 |
If you want to play with making a gas turbine the turbcharger off a car or truck would be something to experiment with. |
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| Muecci Newbie Joined: 02/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 2 |
Hey All, Thanks for the replies… I am doing research on a steam turbine now. Some friends and I have been working on some HHO generator builds to supplement gasoline in our vehicles. We then started thinking about generating enough HHO to power a lawn mower without using gasoline. We are pretty confident that we can do that. I started to wonder about generating HHO to heat water to produce steam. If the generator system can produce enough steam to turn a turbine to create electricity and push cycles into an alternator so no outside electrical source is used then we would create electricity from water. I know it sounds totally crazy but we are trying to understand how pulsing the electrical current can improve the hydrogen output of the HHO generators. We could then feed the surplus electricity into batter storage for home use. Anyway, since steam turbines are much different that windmill turbines I guess I am in the wrong place. Thanks for the input so far and good luck on your projects!! Thanks Again, Brad |
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sodes Newbie Joined: 26/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 21 |
Gday Brad, if your still there mate, just wondering how you were getting on with your HHO generators, ive been thinking about building an electrolysis unit for the car but am still researching the materials for the electrodes for max efficiency. I have heard platinum is good but not cheap, but some use plates embedded with splintered nickel just wondering what you have learnt as far as electrode materials go, and what works best? Cheers Sodes "Do, or do not... There is no try." -Yoda |
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Paul J Newbie Joined: 07/07/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2 |
Hi, My idea is to only have a few batteries and store the rest of the power as hydrogen and run a motor with a generator. On you tube at Hydrogenfuel-engine fundamentals by Steven Harris there is 1 to 10 videos on running a 5hp motor on hydrogen. They removed the carby and replaced it with a 1/8 needle valve with the outlet next to the inlet valve. The gas was fed at a pressure of 5 to 10 psi. Also petrol motors fire at 3 degrees before the piston reaches the top but hydrogen must be ignited when the piston is at the top because of the rapid rate at which hydrogen burns. Three ways to change the timing on a small motor: If it has points, reposition the points. Relocate the pin on the fly wheel. Delay the timing using a 555 chip and a mosfet The 1/8 needle valve I got off ebay at csisurplus usa Steven Harris has a web sit at www.ush2.com where you can buy books on all these subjects. Converting power to hydrogen and then back to power is about 20% to 25% efficient. Installing an electrolyser on a car. Powering an electrolyser with the car battery and connecting the oxygen and hydrogen to the inlet manifold may not improve the fuel economy because of the timing of the motor. The electrolyser I built was made from food grade stainless steel pipe. The inside pipe was about1.5mm thick and 25mm dia and the outside pipe fitted over the inside with about 1mm clearance between and 300mm long. I cut bits of conduit to space the inner and outer pipes which I placed near each end and the oxygen and hydrogen form between the pipes so gaps must be left. I made 14 lengths of pipe and bundled them together by cutting a length of 12mm copper pipe in half long ways and then flattened it out but next time I will use lead flashing and cut it in strips. I connected all the out side pipes to the positive terminal and all the inside pipes to the negative terminal and placed the pipes in tap water. The bubbles just pored out between the pipes so I added a little detergent to trap the escaping bubbles and ignited it. The result was amazing, it went off like a shot gun. I suggest just make up one length and put some jumper leads on the pipes in a bucket of water. To reduce resistance in the water just add baking soda and that will increase the current. This design is great if your going to feed the gas straight into the motor but to store hydrogen the oxygen must be removed, so I need to do a re-think on the design. Thanks to the info from this site I have just finished my first wind generator, but still testing different blades and have collected another ten motors. So that is about where I am up to. Paul J |
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| johnj Newbie Joined: 05/04/2008 Location: DenmarkPosts: 17 |
Paul, what sort of power did you apply? Voltage, ac or dc, amps? Hows about storing the hydrogen and putting the oxygen to the bottom of the near-dead seas, caused by algae having taken away all the oxygen of these seas? cheers, J |
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| Paul J Newbie Joined: 07/07/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2 |
John, the electrolyser only works on DC current. The hydrogen bubbles form on the negative charged stainless steel pipe and the oxygen bubbles form on the positive pipe. I started with a 2 amp 12v battery charger but when I connected the 12v battery it took about 4 amps but any DC voltage will work. The picture below is a basic plan of the lay out. As the gas builds up in the tank it causes the top tank to lift. This idea has been used on natural gas as storage for a town also to store the gas off septic tanks and serves as a pressure relief valve . This makes it very safe as you must add oxygen and an ignition sources for hydrogen to burn. The bubbler is a small sealed container full of water. If the gas starts to burn back up the pipe from the motor this prevents the flame reaching the storage tank as the flame can not pass through the water. The pressure in the tank depends on the weight of the inverted tank. 
My first Electrolyser 
Paul J |
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| sodes Newbie Joined: 26/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 21 |
Hi Paul j looks pretty good mate yeah I might try stainless as the electrode it seems it was quite a good material for the job and doesnt look as if its oxidised or corroded any. I think i'll do a trial soon with some different metals and compare the effectiveness. Theres a guy down in Portland vic who is selling hho electrolysers for cars and is claiming 25-40% savings in fuel would love to know what materials his kit uses trouble is the kits worth $1300! Cheers Sodes "Do, or do not... There is no try." -Yoda |
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readyakira Senior Member Joined: 17/07/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 114 |
From my experience HHO along with water vapor injection is good for boosting mileage small amounts, while reducing emmsions drasticaly. But to use it in a home, I think would be not efficient. The problem like stated is there is an reduction in available energy everytime you convert it. It is usually lost in the form of heat in some fashion. This is also one of the reasons an ICE is so inefficient. Now if you were to be using wind or solar to generate HHO for some small welding of something that would probably be more benifical since you are not putting a large strain on batteries thus prolonging their life. One must also consider the problem of storage of HHO. HHO is very very explosive, Hydrogen alone is much safer. But again you lose alot of efficency when you seperate water into hydrogen and oxygen seperatly. There are some videos on youtube, as well as some that were on um, invention nation I think that showed people with houses that combined, solar, wind, geo-thermal with Hydrogen/oxygen to support an off grid home. Although I would love to do that myself, unfortunatly my bankroll don't allow it. Don't you think Free/Renewable energy should be mandatory in new buildings? |
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