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Forum Index : Windmills : F&P voltage
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| Greg Hudson Newbie  Joined: 28/04/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
G'Day All. I'm an absolute newbie here, and have only just begun to tinker with the idea of getting an F&P up & running. So far, all I have is a Latronics PVE1200 inverter, salvaged from a defunct solar system. I've spoken to L re their TC48 turbine controller, and they tell me I MUST use a 48v turbine. I've looked at a couple of commercial ones (Chinese at around $700 and an Air-X Industrial 400w at around $1800 (ouch). Because of the prices, I thought maybe I should look at building my own - and hence I arrived at this forum. My question to all is: Will a F&P setup provide 48v to feed into a Latronics TC48 ? From what videos I've seen on YouTube, NOTHING has produced such a voltage - they all seem to be much less, and the lower the windspeed, the lower the volts... Based on this, is there any chance that a F&P will do the job ? I am yet to purchase a F&P motor, however my local whitegoods store has one, and he wants $60 for it. (BTW, he told me he pays $60 (from F&P) for complete washing machines, and butchers them for all the parts to fix others. So... Should I get the F&P or go for a commercial turbine ? NOTE: I don't have any welding or metal working gear. |
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Steve9R Regular Member  Joined: 24/01/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72 |
the F&P and even the Chinese mills etc are 3-phase by default.. you can rectify them down to be any voltage you like.. but.. you'd want to run to your batteries first (so long as they are greater than about 120Ah then they will be able to clamp the voltage coming in, then use a controller of some sort (plasmatronics etc) to monitor the batteries and dump excess power to your dump loads if needed.. then your lntronics would plug into your batteries to be your inverter for 240v conversion.. thats how i'd do it anyway.. im sure others will pitch in their ideas too.. Steve |
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi Greg, I have been running 48v into a pve grid inverter for over a year now , the latest dual is performing extreamly well in very low wind and also in stronger wind using the blades offered on this site . 48v works very well with 80s stators in a 2p7s config and by twisting the poles to minimise clogging and using the cap/voltage doubler it has all come together to be a very efficient set up , I have posted numerious posts with pictures over the past year or so with all my efforts to get the best performance from the F&P at 48V , use the search engine at the top of the page to filter out my posts , in my opinion 48v works the best and the latest is unbeliveable as in "HOMEGROWN PVC BLADES" AWESOME--Post from last week.. You have not said wether your inverter a grid inverter or stand alone ? Anyway if you sort through all of that info and want to go ahead with wind power ,than this site will be an invaluable tool to get you there , but even if you build your own it will still set you back a fair amount of dollars after it is all finished with a tower / wiring / controller/ dumpload and not to mention the mill... PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| Greg Hudson Newbie Joined: 28/04/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
G'Day Guys, & thanks for the responses. Phill. You obviously have something similar to what I want to set up. My first question is how do you get 48v INTO the PVE ? Latronics tell me the trigger voltage for Grid input (from the PE 1200 is 54v - so I assume this would be the 'minimum' voltage required ? (Your thoughts / comments) What is this voltage doubler thingo ? My plan is to feed 3 phase into the TC48 turbine controller, which in turn feeds into the PVE1200. Note: no batteries (if I can get away without them - I hope). I've purchased an el-cheapo weather station so I can see what's happening outside - so far, peak wind speed is 11.6 m/s. I have no idea of average wind speed yet - not enough data (but I'm guessing it will be very low). You mentioned a DUMPLOAD... Would a dumpload be necessary when not having a battery bank ? I'll run a search for your posts & see what you have done. Thanks, Greg. |
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GWatPE Senior Member  Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
The TC48 controller uses a disconnection of the output loading before a shorting of the input type control. A typical F&P windmill Single stator with >2.4m rotor will reactance limit when shorted, and not always stop when braked this way. Probably not too much a problem. The new model has built in rectifiers. The cap arrangements/voltage doublers have been described previously. check the cap testing thread. down a few pages now. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi Greg , Depending on how you configure your stator will determine when at what rotor RPM 48v / 54.4v is reached , a stator pulled straight out of a F&P and connected ( unmodified ) works OK at 48v. A 60s - 60rpm in star 120 delta , 80s - 84RPM star 140rpm delta and you will get 200 to 250 watts from a single stator , all the graphs and data are in the cap testing thread but in my opinion if you are going to set up a pole and everything asssociated with it then why put one stator on it . I went to the limits of putting a quad stator up but it went down due to a guy rope pulling out but now due to the developments a dual with caps/ doublers and the PVC blades outperforms the quad buy a mile . I don't have any experience with the TC-48 but I would recomend useing a small batt bank to act as a buffer , I think Bolty also does this but I may be wrong.. If you are interested in a dual set up I can do the mods for a dual and should have a blade hub soon to suit. If you are inclining that way then my Email is phillm6@Gmail.com PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| Greg Hudson Newbie Joined: 28/04/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 22 |
G'Day Gordon. I'm having issues trying to understand how the PV Edge inverter can receive the 'required' 54v (to trigger grid input)- not so much the limiting factor of the TC48 in high wind (which is a rarity here). I did find some msgs re CAPS, but I don't know if they were regarding 'testing' as such. I'll keep looking. I did discover a circuit diagram of yours though - caps & a bridge. I'll follow up on that too. |
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AMACK Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 184 |
Greg, I am going along the same lines as you, only wind at my location is very good. I to have looked at the tc48 and from what is states it can do to what it can do may be two diffrent things.( Hope I am wrong.) Let me know if you have gone any further with it. Thanks Andy.. *Note to self 1. Make it thick 2.Make it heavy. 3.Make it stronger than it should be. 4. Don't rush the first job as the second job will cost more and take mor |
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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
so where are you guys at? mine (presently) is simple a 7p2 star per the site instructions and im 99% sure she's an 80 series. Batteries is looking more expensive than grid tied (thought I'd never see it) fillm can you post a pic of the 2p7s wiring please? Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Phillm doesnt have a pic and tried to explain it to me but I'm still a newbie....even though I'm a groupie.... Anyone else with a pic or diagram of the 2p7s for a simpleton like me. Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Karl, did you check the 'getting started' page? http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/coglessFP.asp Klaus |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
got it, the getting started page doesnt do the 2p7s scenario for the 42 pole stator BUT, does sho it later under the 7 phas conversion, guess same logic applies. Now I have to re-wire my re-wire mmmm fun! Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5119 |
Hi Karl Sorry about the confusion the different wiring nameing schemes have caused, your not the first to rewire his stator through the confusion. I'm working on a page that shows the different layouts, will post a message when its finished. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Looks like I have a source of F&P's he got 1/2 a dozen hoping to get started but time got away and he's all but given up, I'll give him the 12V job and score the alternatives (hopefully for nicks). Luck favours the well prepared |
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