 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Windmills : wind mill controller need - help !
| Author | Message | ||||
| remuda Newbie  Joined: 27/06/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
Hello - and thank you in advance for any help. I won’t trouble you with to many details, but I hired an energy consultant to design a wind & battery system to power our new home, which is off grid. This chap sold us a system from China (wind king) it is a 5 klw turbine – control box – dump and 5000 watt inverter, then he sold us used telecom batteries which are 2 volt, but they have 2250 amp, there is a total of 24 batteries to make 48 volts. Now it’s time to hook everything up and I have discovered that the windmill is 220 volt ac 3 phase and the controller is also set up at 220 volt – so the control will never stop asking for power because it thinks it needs 220 volts to have the batteries up to charge, then on the other side the inverter wont work because it needs 220 dc to convert it to 220 ac. I know I need to purchase another inverter to take 48volts to either 110 or 240 and there are a number of options there – The problem is the controller to take the windmill from 220 ac to 48 volts. Does any one know were I can buy or have built a controller to perform this task. To complete the picture I was given a 48-volt rectifier that takes 1 phase to 48 volts and I have a 4-cyl 35-klw-diesel generators to power it. I look forward to any advise – I am really stuck. Cheers |
||||
oztules Guru  Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Hmmm 2 solutions. 1. upgrade to a 220v battery bank 36 x T105 trojans will give you 48KWH (about half your present bank) for a reasonable outlay. The rest of the system sounds like it is ready to run with this.. problem solved for the inverter, controller.. etc. OR: 2. You need a 3 ph transformer to bring the 220v down to 48v. (probably from a large forklift battery charger is the cheapest source for these). Then you need a 48v dump controller and rectifier , a dump load.... then a controller to engage the mill at run speed (don't turn on transformer until mill is up to a certain rpm... else it will act as a short and stall the blades from starting... with AC it is a transformer, with DC... a boat anchor)) and last but not least, a big inverter from 48 to your chosen AC... none of this is cheap. If all the supplied gear is suited to 220v, I would probably sell the battery bank you have and buy a 220v one, made from 220AH 6V trojans as everything is set for it. Over your side of the planet, Sams batteries seem to sell those golf cart batteries for peanuts... and all your problems appear to be solved as per the manufacturers original intent. OR:..The big inverter will cost serious money, and you still need to cobble together the rest of the control system and transformer. We run a AWP 240v mill down here. (solution 2.) It goes 240 from the mill to the transformer... then 48v dump and controller from there. Some pics are at the bottom of this post here and here It describes how the system works as in the second case (48v bank) The cost of all this new gear will be more than a new battery bank I suspect. The good thing with a 220v battery... all the wiring is small, and the batteries never see serious current.... should last better. You could also stick up a second turbine (smaller 48v unit) to drive the 48v bank and new inverter ... out in the barn...where the boys play 
...........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
||||
| remuda Newbie Joined: 27/06/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
The dream solution would be to keep the battery banks at 24 or 48 volt – that way I can charge the batteries with the 48-volt rectifier via the diesel generator. Also invertors are common to 24 or 48 to 110 or 240 and the cost is about 2grand give or take – and I can live with that. The least expensive battery I could find here in Nova Scotia to the job was 6-volt golf cart battery and they were about 170.each, and were batteries don’t mix and match well, I wouldn’t be able to use the brutes that I have now, that means for a 220 volt battery bank, I am looking at something in the order of 6 to 7 thousand bucks, and that is on top of what this fellow charged for the telecom batteries – that would really hurt me - bad. So I would like to keep the old batteries – I would then buy an inverter for a couple grand, which just leaves the controller. Please keep in mind I am not very familiar with this stuff so I kinda need something off the shelve or close to it. Cheers |
||||
| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
"So I would like to keep the old batteries – I would then buy an inverter for a couple grand, which just leaves the controller.".... and a 5kva 3ph transformer. 220:48v (and 48v 3ph rectifier (cheap) The transformer is the tricky bit to match. It will depend on the pole count on the alternator and the run rpm. 5kw is a decent size blade wise, so the rpm will be low. If the pole count is low as well, then the transformer will be oversize to account for the low frequency. This could be problematic. The AWP I refer to here has 30 poles, and a 3.6m blades set. This means our frequency is quite high (>50hz most of the time in the power band) so the transformer can be sized for the mains frequency.... 1kva for ours. If your frequency falls well below mains design, then you need to upsize the KVA (bigger beast) to allow for staying out of saturation at these lower frequencies. Luckily, transformers are incredibly tough, and the duty cycle not consistent, so there is plenty of wiggle room here. It could even be cheaper/ smartest move to return the mill with a restocking fee and buy a 48v unit. (keep the batteries and start again. To use it as a 48v system, you really need a consultant that knows what he's/she's doing. A badly matched windmill is a boat anchor.... and your batteries need a good control system... these are off the shelf, but not cheap either (outback etc.). Plan B.... rewire the alternator in the mill for 48v (roughly 1/4 the turns and 4 times the current wire)... but you still need the inverter and charge controller... I'd be tackling your energy consultant I think... maybe a good tar and feathering in the middle of town perhaps. ...........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
||||
MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
This is exactly why I prefer building my electricity on the ground. I'm telling you, windmills that merely pump air are far easier to live with! I'll be posting a complete show-'n-tell very soon. I'm just finishing up a couple air engines and I'll raise the curtain so everyone can see why I'm such a stick in the mud on this topic. The first go-round will feature all 12-volt items so folks can utilize off-the- shelf stuff from common sources. Tinker: The 12-volt clothes dryer is on a back burner, but be patient; I'll get around to it sooner or later. Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| Robb Senior Member  Joined: 01/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
Have you asked the "energy consultant" what he proposed you do with the items he sold you? Has he stuffed up your order or am I missing something here? |
||||
| remuda Newbie Joined: 27/06/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
Ah yes – my good old consultant, That piece of %#*, I will have to take legal action against him but at this point I can’t trust him to resolve the problem – I didn’t have time to do the reasch my self when I started this and thought I could hire some one with the correct set of skills I needed – but I made a very poor choice in who I hired – his objective was to pick my pocket (he did a real good job) – as you know it’s expensive to legal action, and if he doesn’t have anything in his name, well you cant get blood out of turnip, the best you can hope for is a judgment and that doesn’t fix my problem, so I am focused on the problem and I will deal with him later. |
||||
| Robb Senior Member Joined: 01/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221 |
OK  .
I do like oztule's idea of a 240 volt battery bank but then thats our mains voltage and we could just buy $5 cfls etc and use them on 240 volts dc. Also could dump into a stock standard electric hot water heater. Brush motors run ok on DC so you could run many of your power tools with no inverter. Many switchmode power supplies will run on DC just as well as AC. But 110 volts is the norm over there right??? |
||||
| remuda Newbie Joined: 27/06/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 4 |
yup ! |
||||
| madhavchowdhary Newbie Joined: 12/08/2009 Location: IndiaPosts: 1 |
I can build Battery Charger, with 230 v AC i/p and 48 volts output. Also can offer DC-DC converter to step up 48 volts to match the inverter i/p Regards. Madhav Chowdhary (India) madhav |
||||
 Print this page |
 |
The Back Shed's forum code is written, and hosted, in Australia. | © JAQ Software 2025 |
