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Forum Index : Windmills : Neo’s Finally Installed
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JimBo911 Senior Member  Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Ok guys just thought I would keep you informed. I have finished installing my neo's in the drum rotor. (See photos) I used fiberglass resin to keep them in place. Testing on my 13" South Bend Heavy 10 has proved fruitless from lack of power. The ceramic magnet rotor posed no problem for my lathe but the neo's put one hell of a load on the machine hummmmm I guess that's a good thing. I feel confident that electronic braking with the neo's should work very well. Wondering if the 8'foot PVC blades will be enough to make power with the neo mags. 
Jim |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Correction the leather belt on my lathe had to be tighten. At approximately 500 rpm my amp meter read 11.35 amps pushing in to a 24 volt battery bank or 272.4 watts. The battery voltage quickly jumped to 30.25 volts or lets say 343.3 watts. (two small 12 volt lawn tractor batteries for testing) Stator is a 60dc-7s-2p- star/delta Reading at 500 rpm with stator in delta. Hummmm not as good as I had wanted? A 48 volt system is what I am really shooting for. Jim |
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi Jim , Thats an excellent job you have done on the neo hub and should be outputing a lot more than that . I went down the neo path a year or so ago with a dual neo and came to the conclusion that all the effort was not worth it in the end , I hope you have better success than I did . The main reason I decided to give up on the neos was the amount of torque needed to turn it , requiring 15 - 17 klm wind to get it going , but when it did run in good wind it would get up to 700w which is what I am now getting out of a standard 80s dual with cps/doubler with the benifit of very good low wind performance.. At that time I did not have the benifit of the PVC blades which do give more torque in light wind , I would also be trying 80s 7s 2p and seeing how that goes. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Phill To say I am disappointed with the power out put would be an understatement. I will begin more testing to get a better idea of cut in speeds and out put at different rpms. Your idea of trying an 80s might do the trick. There is very little clogging which was a surprise to me. I am a long way off from cps and voltage doubler but wheres the fun if we don't keep trying right? If all goes well I will be moving in the direction of mounting the alternator to the yaw assembly and PVC blades accordingly. Hey I never got to see how you mounted your PVC blades to your Ax Fx machine?  Jim |
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| woodchips Newbie  Joined: 05/01/2009 Location: United KingdomPosts: 27 |
Hello Yes, looks good. Since it all looks set up ready to test, could you please try something. Rewire the stator to make it a star connection. Wire the parallel coils to completely separate rectifiers, think this will make two separate star windings, and then connect the DC sides together and to the battery. Alternatively just leave them open circuit. The reason is that, theoretically, there will be horrendous circulating currents in both the delta stator connection AND in any stator coils directly connected in parallel. These circulating currents could be as much as the output current you are getting. The rewire removes all such closed loops and parallel paths. Thanks. Bob |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I don't have one to test, so this is supposition. But I figure the drawbacks to neo's in F&P are due to the increased magnet field... not doing as was hoped for. Magnets 4 time as powerful= four times as much power I think was the aim. (Don't know what the real ratio was/is, but that kind of idea I suspect) Problem 1. With the new super dooper magnets installed, we get a huge increase in iron drag. I noticed this when I was doing the Seeley experiments. So Phills observation that much more wind is required to start the thing is expected. There is no good side to this it is loss loss from the start onwards...... but we have more flux to play with and this should be good? Problem 2. Mere supposition on my part, but I suspect that the original motor/magnet design, would have put the iron not that far from saturation in the first place. With this in mind, it is probable that when the Neo's are installed, we completely saturate them with a whole lot better flux than before, for a less than stellar increase in electrical output..... the extra flux cannot contribute as much as was expected... because saturated is saturated. The added iron drag added to this less than expected lift in power output is probably what causes the less than spectacular increase to be seen. I doubt that the conversion is really worth it.... and with what Phill has found with Gordons doubler caps, probably put the final nail in the neo conversion coffin. ........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
I sure appreciate the in put from you guys. Any ideas or thoughts are good as far as I am concern. The stator I am using is a 36 pole 60dc-7s-2p-star/delta if I am correct it is the a newest stator available. I can't be sure but I don't recall much R&D on this stator in this forum. Using the neos of course was to increase the power out put and in that regard I think I have done relatively well. After putting the stator back together with it's original plastic rotor, ceramic magnets I did the same testing as I did with the neo rotor. By using the neos I was able to increase the out put by approximately 50% at all rpms especially at lower rpms. Now unless I am doing something wrong with the testing this stator doesn't seem to make much power in it's original state. Oztules with the neo's and this stator there is very little clogging so start up should not be a problem. As far as iron drag and the torque required to make power that's another story. Bob I am not the best at rewiring but I should would like to give your idea a try. If you would please shoot me an e mail lets chat a little more OK? JamesRobin@Comcast.net Thanks guys. Jim |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Another correction hummmmm. I was able to double the out put with the neos or 100% increase. Approximately 11.33 amps not very much. Jim |
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| carl1 Regular Member  Joined: 16/04/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 79 |
Hi Jim Look at an old post from me, 2007-04-19 there is output results with neos. cheers Harald |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Carl Thanks for the reply. I will check out your post. Not sure if the 36 pole 60dc stator was available then. I plan on running some more test my self. At the present time I will be using my lathe to finish the hub, blades and tail etc. Thanks again. Jim |
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herbnz Senior Member Joined: 18/02/2007 Location: New ZealandPosts: 258 |
Hi All the testing I have done on smart drives indicate that the stator poles are saturated with standard rotors. This of course is at no load the increase of output tends to drive the poles out of saturation due to the demagnetising effect of the stator ampere turns. Neo's should therefore have little effect at light loads but will dramatically increase the power output as the output increases, ofcourse as we are usually charging batteries this increase in out put is acompised by a speed increase. A standard rotor with weak magnets eventually gives up and no increase in output is possible hence our speed runs away with more input power. Neo's should at this point allow more power as the field is still there. I have only seen one test on here that was conducted on Neo conversion measuring input power this I remember showed this. Re connections dont use Delta best not to use parallel coils. as Bob is saying. I personally built a lot of Hydro's for ppl I gave up re connections years ago its quicker and easier to rip the windings off and rap a new winding on it is the equivalent of a 100sp is only 13 turns on each pole but you can go a lot more variations than this. It means you can avoid any interconnection of windings and can use Jerry type connections that eliminates any drag from circuilating currents. Herb |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Lots of useful information. Thanks to all involved. Jim |
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