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Forum Index : Windmills : Multiple windmills
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| azcity Newbie  Joined: 31/03/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 9 |
I have three different voltage wind generators going up. Just stuff I had around. I am not going to a battery bank. I want to go directly to a heating element. Can I hook all three together and run it directly to the elements? Can someone tell me how to or direct me to a site that will give me info on an auto furling device. These windmills will be at my place of business and will not have anybody to manually rotate them out of the wind. Ken |
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
look here http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/Docs/Furling.asp and here http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/fp2b.asp and here http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/fp2c.asp Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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Gill Senior Member  Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
G'day azcity, As regards 3 generators into one heating element; Connecting like this is not the usual way to go and without more info on the three outputs and load,I for one, would not make a recommendation. Some basic considerations are: How high and close are these voltages? Are they AC or DC or a mix? Will one gen output turn the other gens into motors? Are all 3 gens in the same wind flow? Does the load (heating element) suit the gen outputs? I doubt that you'll find specific info on your intended setup on web sites and think the forum approach is your best bet. See how you go getting more info for us. was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| thefinis Regular Member  Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
3 mills 1 heating element no battery bank Can it be done Probably Should you do it that way No It like asking if a VW bettle could win a nascar race. It could probably be done(with enough money and modifications) but why try it when there are so many better options. It is hard to set up a single turbine to just run a heating element but has been tried many times and many ways. Do a google search I would try wind heat element and look for the hits on wind forums. Finis Texas born and bred |
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| azcity Newbie Joined: 31/03/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 9 |
Thanks for the replies. All three wind mills are on same property about 150 ft apart. All three generators are DC 1-12 1-24 1-360 The 360 will never have enough RPM to create that voltage. I realize that this is not the normal way of doing thing. Most people aren't interested in running just heating elements. I would guess that I need to put diodes on each line to prevent backfeed. I had the 360 hooked up once but it only raised the temp of a water heating element to 140 degrees, that is why I wanted to hook in the others. The other question would be. If I use solar to preheat to 140 (this is AZ.) then would the 360 have heated to it to 190 or the same 50 degree difference it heated the element at 80 degrees? |
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| Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
Lets deal with the heating question first. The 360 brings the water to 140deg but no higher. so it's at this point that the power in equals the power dissipated (lost). Lets pluck a figure from the air and call it 80 watts of power. Now lets substitute the 360 with solar and we use that to bring the water to 140deg. So we must have 80watts of solar power in but the container is still loosing 80 watts. but "duly preheated" If we then disconnect the solar and connect the 360, its input of 80 watts into the water at 140deg will not cause a rise in temp because at that temp we are still loosing 80 watts. If however we left the solar 80 watts connected and added the 360's 80 watts on top of it, then we would have 160 watts in and only 80 watts loss so the temp would definitely rise above 140. Both together does not mean I am telling you to connect both to the same element. It may be possible, but for you, use separate elements to be sure. ____________________________________________ As for the wind gens, There's to big of a difference in voltages to connect them all up. Separate elements tailored for each gen is your safest bet. Alternatively try the 12 and the 24 connected in series to give 36. But the 360 is just to much of an unknown quantity for me. Best of luck was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Hope I did not come across wrong. I was trying to say that 1 turbine 1 heating load has been done many times many ways. Was going to say that any heat(btu's) added is heat added no matter the water temp. Gill is way ahead of me as he included thermal losses. Finis Texas born and bred |
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| azcity Newbie Joined: 31/03/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 9 |
Thanks for the help. Gill I'll let you know when the smoke pours out. Finis, you said it has been tried many times in many ways but you didn't tell me if any of them worked. Ken |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Yes it is more a matter of controlling the turbine (preventing stall and overspeeding) but you will have to talk to some who have done as I am not sure of the electronics needed when using the dump load as a main load. I know that several of the folks posting at otherpower have done it or played with it. http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/1/9/165434/0441 http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/3/3/134536/6348 http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/12/29/123310/77 I tried searching here but had no luck with finding relevant articles. May just be me not used to the search feature here. One quick note is that solar is so much better at heating than wind that improvements in the solar part of your system may serve you much better than wind/electric/heat. Finis Finis Texas born and bred |
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| azcity Newbie Joined: 31/03/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 9 |
Finis, I am going to use solar to preheat but I need 375 Degrees and even here in AZ. it doesn't get quite that hot. Started #1 windmill today and am getting 50v in 11 mph wind. How the @#% do you get the dang thing stopped once you get it going to make some adjustments? Finally had to lasso the tail to pull it out of the wind. First try cost me a brand new rope. You know your lookin like a fool when the neighbors bring out the lawn chairs to watch. Ken |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Sounds like you are making a boiler not a water heater. Thermal losses will be much greater plus you should be building up pressure. Use care in picking elements both for heat range and ability to handle higher pressure. If shorting it out does not stop it then the blades are overpowering the genny. If so then shorter blades would give more rpms and more electricity unless you are trying for low wind generation. You are doing fine if you can lasso the tail on a windmill but sounds like it would have been fun to watch. Do you mainly use hot water/steam in the daylight hours or is it a 24 hrs a day need? I have a pdf file where they used a nifty cheap solar collector the design could be used for what you are wanting. I can not see how to upload a pdf file and they have taken down the link to it online. It is basicly a long half circle trough lined with mylar with a pipe above it in the zone where the rays focus from the mirror. I will send it in an email to your business addy. It was for solar ice making but should work better for water heating. Finis Texas born and bred |
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rotorhed Newbie Joined: 29/01/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 36 |
Hi Finis Just having a little squiz at the forum and was wondering if you would be able to send me the pdf you talk about in you last post. If thats possible my email it rotor_hed@hotmail.com Cheers Christian Marge the Winds are here Ah McCaine............. |
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| azcity Newbie Joined: 31/03/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 9 |
Hey Finis, Here is what I am trying to do. I have a boiler that I use for steam in our processing. This has solar preheating. The material that I am trying to process is plastic and right now I have to grind it and it goes to the landfill. What I want to do is create a room above the boiler and use the flue heat and wind energy to heat this room (oven) to 375 degrees. This will melt the plastic into a liquid that will take on the square shape of the containers it is in so I will then have blocks that I can use in a multitude of building projects. (Underground housing, fences with stucco coating). I have successfully done this in our oven but the little lady gets a little pissed. Anyways that's the scoop, so I am looking for anyway I can to get this room to 375 without using my boiler and wasting energy. If I can capture the energy and suppliment via wind then all is well in my world (for this tiny moment). Did not get your pdf yet. azcity |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Sorry if I have hijacked this thread. Okay have not compressed with this utility before so hope all goes well. 7-zip looked like good freeware so we will try with it. Here is that pdf file zipped so anyone who wants to see it can. Christian if this is no go I'll email you the file. 2007-04-13_215122_solarice.zip Post if this does not work. Home power mag has this article in its archives but you have to pay to see. It was posted somewhere else by the maker but after the unit became commerical that link went down. I found it looking for cooling in hot weather several years ago. It looked to me to be better for a boiler than making cool/ice. Emailed a fellow in NZ who had built one with a tracking unit to run a sterling motor but was still working on the sterling last I heard. Azcity how big a block? I read up on melting down plastics and it was not encouraging. An old big sat dish covered with mylar will go to temps at the focal point high enough to melt some metals. It would be outside so the fumes/smell would be less of a problem. Here is a link to a thread about it. http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/10/12/143057/35 Good luck and sorry about turning this from wind to solar. Finis Texas born and bred |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Azcity my email bounced to you for the email addy on your website. Was going to email this if the pdf had made it. For what you have and what you want may I make a few recommendations. Know your plastics and what fumes are released when melting. Use wind and solar for preheating or added heat and look at flue exhaust for water preheating. Drawbacks to using exhaust heat can be CO, condensation, and restricted air flow. Any mods made to a boiler unit may have to be done by certified plumber. Trying to add heat to the exhaust to raise the temp seems backwards. All high heat needs should be done before cooling of air flow. Look at the possibility of SAFELY converting a space heated by the boiler burner(if it is a gas fired unit). This would let the flames eat any fumes and very little heat energy should be lost. The burner has a fairly even working temp so once the procedure is tweeked the time needed for melting a batch of plastic for blocks would be a known factor. Consider using a solar furnace like the parabolic mirror mentioned for melting plastic. You may have trouble controlling high temps but reaching a temp of 375F should not be hard. Much depends on the amount to process and the man hours available. Good luck Finis Texas born and bred |
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Hugh Regular Member Joined: 26/11/2006 Location: CanadaPosts: 41 |
Hey there Finis The zip worked just fine, nice article Hugh thnxs allways |
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| rotorhed Newbie Joined: 29/01/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 36 |
Hi Finis thanks for the download worked just fine Cheers Christian Marge the Winds are here Ah McCaine............. |
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