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Forum Index : Windmills : Any data on output Lenz vs hawt
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| thefinis Regular Member  Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Glenn You had the Lenz up on the tower for awhile before you took it down did you get any performance data especially comparing it to the hawt at same wind speeds? Not sure what the swept areas are (I could go check) but if you have comparative data at say 3 m/s 5 m/s and 9 m/s I would love to see it. Any speeds would work but figured this was a range that both had seen on the tower. Power produced per sq meter@wind speed numbers would be lovely but I can do it if I know the output #'s. Getting ready to build the next version of my Lenz in an 8x13 ft model and wanted to check my expected output against your actual. Thanks Finis Texas born and bred |
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| sunuser Newbie  Joined: 15/04/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 2 |
Finis would you email me I would like to be able to email you and see how far we are from each other. Thank You Sunuser |
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Hello Glenn, I want that too. In my zone, I think Lenz turbine will do a great job. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Sunuser You are east of me by a couple of hundred miles. I am out in west Texas near San Angelo. I have the big wind farms north of here around Abilene and out west around Ft Stockton area. We are using lots of commercially generated wind power just because that is how it works out. Link is to article about transmission line built for transporting wind power out here. http://www.lcra.org/newsstory/2003/2003_7_7_transmission_mor gan_creek.html Just north of where I am there are lots of folks being induced to sign lease pool agreements for future wind farms. For many I'm sure it is a good idea but while I can't drill thousands of ft deep for oil I think I can build a wind farm to put up in the breeze. I could not find an email addy for you in your profile Hope you are getting good rains and not floods take care Finis Texas born and bred |
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| sunuser Newbie Joined: 15/04/2007 Location: United StatesPosts: 2 |
Finis I did not know that the email was listed private. It is now changed. I have relatives in San Angelo and around Colorado City. I get to Colorado City often as mother lives there. I am always trying to track down sources of materials in our end of the country and would like to exchange information. Thank You Sunuser |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Hi Guys I wish I could give some accurate figures, but the winds at my place are terrible, all over the place. All I can provide are my own observations. This time of year, my winter, the winds come from the south east and I live on the north side of a hill, so as you could imagine the winds are very turbulent. In Summer the winds come from the north and my HAWT ( about 3.8m2 area ) works well, 5 to 10 amps most of the day with peaks over 20 amps. When the winds changed a few months ago and the HAWT stopped working, I put up the Lenz ( 1.5m2 area ) and it did work, putting out 0.5 to 1.5 amps most of the day, with a couple of peaks over 4 amps during the gusts. So the Lenz was making power when the HAWT wasn't. A couple of weeks ago I took down the Lenz, and put back up the HAWT to test the fibreglass blades I was working on. Since then I've seen it go 2 times, and only once did it make power, about 5 amps for a few minutes. At this time I dont have any data where I can compare the Lenz to a good HAWT in good winds. But the results I have do indicate it would work well, and I believe Ed's results from his own experiments would be spot on, that is, the Lenz performs as well as a good HAWT. Observing the Lenz, my old Southern Cross windmill, and the high speed HAWT has made me rethink the whole windmill thing. The Lenz worked, its a vertical with no directional tail, so works well in gusty turbulent winds. The Southern Cross worked, its pumped water even during these turbulent winds, because it has a low speed high solidity turbine and makes the most of all wind speeds. The high speed HAWT doesn't work, the wind is never strong enough or clean enough to get the turbine up to speed. Dennis made an observation recently, his best windmill used a standard 100 series stator, so it had a very low cut in speed of under 100 RPM, and a 5 blade turbine, which started in lower winds and has more torque than a 3 blade turbine. This windmill made more watt hours per day than any other combination he tested! Its no power house, max output could only be 150 or so watts due to the stator wire resistance, but at the end of the day it put more power into the batteries, and thats all that counts. So I'm thinking about trying the same. Take down the high speed HAWT, make a new turbine with 5 or 6 PVC blades of about 2.6m diameter so it will have lots of torque, and use an alternator with a low cut in speed like I did with the Lenz. It wont look pretty or make a lot of power, but I tink it will actually provide some usefull power at the end of each day. I also want to try a high speed VAWT, just for the fun of it. I will replace the Lenz wings with some narrow blades, just to see how it goes. I do like the verticals, they look cool. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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vawtman Senior Member  Joined: 14/09/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 146 |
Gizmo all i can say is if your building a darrius(high speed vawt).Dont build with a wider diameter vs height.The benefits are lost then.My opinion. What size are you planning? I could give some tips.  |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
I was going to use the same spars I used for the Lenz, its all made, I just need to attach the blades. So this means my diameter is about 1300mm. I was thinking about 1500 to 2000mm high. The lenz was 1200 high. Was going for a wander around the hardware store this afternoon to see whats available to make a simple set of blades. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| vawtman Senior Member Joined: 14/09/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 146 |
Hi Gizmo So ~4ftx4ft us Chord around 160mm per blade(3 blade) Thickness=60mm Could you decrease that from current. If the blades are shaped to the rotation it will self start easy. However this design will have a hard time defeating cog from F&P because the curvature of the blades is all you got to start.Once started have fun.Maybe a Seely or axial or a decogged f&p if it has been done. Aluminum trim coil is easy to work with here. Have Fun and sorry its bedtime here. |
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| thefinis Regular Member Joined: 23/08/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 53 |
Thanks Glenn I was pretty sure from Ed, my turbine and everyone else that the Lenz would do well against the hawt in low or turbulent winds but had not really seen a side by side test. Was hoping that you might have data on the piclogger for both in higher winds. Those pvc blades intrigue me and I keep finding big pipe for scrap. They are laying new water mains on a rural system near me and throwing cutoffs on the trash piles. Good luck on the high speed vawt blades. Hawt or vawt if you go over 10ft or 3m diameter you will have dropping rpms to design around. Finis Texas born and bred |
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