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Forum Index : Windmills : mill cant get up to speed continued
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| Ben Newbie  Joined: 10/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 18 |
The other day I could not get my F&P mill .With hugh piggot blades up to speed.I changed from 12v to 24v I have not had wind for a while .Now today in not much wind it was putting in 10Amps the blades were spinning quite fast .It is working well ,my problem now is I bought a Latronic 1300w 12v inverter ,and a 12V controler for my dump load.How do I hook up my inverter and controler or do I have to buy new gear.Thankyou for your help the oter day.I am learning a lot .I love producing power my wife said it was adictive looking at the amp meter. |
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Highlander Senior Member  Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Well, you need to wire the F&P differently. How exactly did you wire it? , as per the old 3 phase instructions Glenn(gizmo) put on the site? Maybe the 7 phase 3 pole would be better! If you've gone to the expense of all the other gear a new $60-$70 7 phase magnet rotor shouldn't be that bad. You'll get much lower start speeds too. Central Victorian highlands |
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| Warpspeed Guru  Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Highlander is right, your F&P needs some internal coil connections changed around to reduce the output voltage, and increase the output current, and make it more suitable for 12v operation. We need to know EXACTLY what you have there before a solution can be suggested. Cheers, Tony. |
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Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
Clearly 12v inverter and controller will not work with your new 24v output. The fact that with a wiring change things are now getting up and running confirms that it is possible to get the mill firing on your 12v gear. I suspect you are more of a mechanical man and trouble shooting a 12v system is somewhat daunting compared to simply exchanging the 12v gear for 24v stuff. Your decision of course. There are way too many unknown factors here to suggest an approach let alone a specific circuit. Without your specific direction and details I can't help either. Sorry. was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| Ben Newbie Joined: 10/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 18 |
The stator is wired 3 phase star.I have another stator I could wire for delta do you think this will work.If I make another mill for the star wired stator should I use a set of flat pitched blades. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Ben, what you need to do next is connect up a whole lot of different odd amounts of load to you machine and measure both the load voltage, and the load current. Anything will do, light bulbs, old electric heating elements, electric motors, whatever odd assortment stuff you can find laying around. You might get something like this: First test, one electric radiator bar 32.9v 4.6amps Second test, two radiator bars in parallel, 15.2v 4.7amps Third test two light bulbs in parallel 23.4v 5.13 amps Fourth test two light bulbs in series 40.1v 3.2 amps Fifth test one radiator bar plus one light bulb 18.6v 5.05 amps Just give us a whole bunch of figures like those above, as many as possible. Notice the highest amount of load (test 2) pulls the voltage right down to only 15.2v, and the machine will run slow. The lightest load (test 4) allows the voltage to rise as high as 40.1 volts. If you can give us a bunch of numbers Ben, the more the better, over a nice spread of output voltages, we can then begin to work out a few things. Cheers, Tony. |
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Trev Guru Joined: 15/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 676 |
Ben, It is possible to run a 12v system. But if you use a 24v system then the 12v inverter and controller is useless. You say '3 phase star'! Are you using the F&P as it came from the washing machine?? Have you re-wired?? How many poles are connected in series?? Personally I think testing with 'other loads is pointless'. If you want the power in a battery, then the battery is the load. Make the gen to charge the battery. But then again, perhaps someone can teach me something too..... Trev @ drivebynature.com |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
G'day Ben, is this how you wired it? (Assuming you did rewire it) 
Glenn's 3 phase rewiring instructions Glenn's 7 phase instructions Central Victorian highlands |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Not really Trev. Suppose you wanted to run a 12v system, but the combination of blades and generator produces closer to 40 volts output in typical average wind conditions. If you do all your testing at only 12v, you may suffer from fairly low efficiency and never know why. By testing with a range of loads you will quickly see that the power output peaks at a much higher voltage than that at which you wish to run your system. It is then just a matter of changing a few things around to produce less output voltage and more output current than you had before. The reverse mat also be true. Power may peak at an output voltage much lower than the battery voltage. Your battery can then never fully load up your wind machine to it's fullest potential. Every wind machine has a quite distinct power output characteristic at any given wind speed. Know what you have, and then you can go about tuning it for best possible results. It is quite easy to do. Just use a wide range of resistive loads and measure the power output at various output voltages in steady average wind conditions. The power will peak at some particular voltage, and be less at voltages lower or higher than optimum. Once you know where you are, and where you want to be, it is not too difficult to figure out a suitable solution. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
I think where all the variations come from is the blades. A higher tsr with a smaller cm2 area will be better for high speed top end running and vice versa. A lot of the blades I've seen seem a little small on the chord(except for Trev's), so the overall cm2 captured area will never really be enough, but if it works and makes a few hundred watt's then that's probably the limit anyway, dunno, I'm no expert, that's just what I recon.  Central Victorian highlands |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Yes definitely. It is a combination of many things, including the blade design that determines the most efficient operating point at a particular wind velocity. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Ben Newbie Joined: 10/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 18 |
I did wire my generator as in highlanders picture.The setup works really will on 24v .10 amps at 28v in mild wind conditions.I thought I could get something to reduce my voltage from 24 to 12 volts. |
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Pt w/field Matt Senior Member Joined: 24/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
hi ben what wire size are you using? matt down south |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Matt you are right. Ben, you have an original F&P , I mean, original coils? You made your coils? How many turns? If you have an original F&P in 12V configuration but you obtain 24V then that kind of blades are PERFECT! More info on them? Cheers Vasi Sorry Trev, I said the same thing ... my apologies. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Because of Hugh Piggot blades? What you used before? Please, give us more details on blades. Maybe try to reduce the length of blades and use 5 or 6 blades ... Or a shorter mast ... Or, 14 groups, 1 pole to reduce the voltage and increase the amps and don't touch the blades. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Ben, are you running a 60,80 or a 100? If you have a 60 that would explain your problem. The most common one found is the 80. If your using one of the 80's then you could try a 100 wired the same. Or wire yours differently so it makes less volts ie less in series more in parallel. Electric side isn't my forte, but I think that's about right. Where in Oz are you? Average wind speed? Do you have a pic of the blades? What is the chord measurement at root,midway and tip? Central Victorian highlands |
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| Ben Newbie Joined: 10/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 18 |
Hi thought I would give an update .The motor is an 80.Am running the mill on 24volt with my 12v inverter and controler,I bought a charge equaliser to keep the batteries in the same charge.I live near Geelong Vic.Has been very windy this weekend .Mill puts out 240 watts in moderate wimd and up to 340 watts in strong wind.I have a small water heater for dump load ,but after this weekend I think I need to make a big 100 litre one.The mill spins very fast at times sounds like an aeroplane prop.Now I want to wire up to light circuit on house with a mains back up. |
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