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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Left behind ?
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| Volhout Guru  Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5998 |
Is everyone abandoning mmbasic for python now ? The pace on pico is so high, that serious ( non AI) development, taking months for decent result, is ourdated.. Is mmbasic also outdated already I am loosing focus Volhout Edited 2026-07-25 15:56 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5187 |
Hi Volhout I'm with you, I'll stick with MMBasic for as long as its around. My head hasn't got room to learn another language. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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karlelch Guru Joined: 30/10/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 339 |
Good question. I plan to keep using MMBasic - switching to (Micro)Python would feel too much like working as I rely on Python in my day job  Cheers Thomas |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 5998 |
Phew.. I am not alone.. thank God PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6549 |
It is interesting to see the rate of progress. I have learnt a lot about Claude by sitting on the sideline. At least with all the interest in micropython, I (and MMEdit) might have a chance to catch up with MMBasic. MMBasic does me nicely for my data acquisition/control projects. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8973 |
And me. :) I got lost at layers though... Elemento is guaranteed to be incompatible with Pico Computer 3. :) Now I need to build one to see if it actually works. lol Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| dddns Guru Joined: 20/09/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 877 |
When I think through the chain of events that explains why everything is the way it is, I always end up at AI I don't use it up to now, so I'm out.. My resolve has been broken, and I haven't written a single line of code since I started seeing the results generated by AI. Sorry for not being positive. |
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| ville56 Guru Joined: 08/06/2022 Location: AustriaPosts: 553 |
Will have a look into Python in any case. Have to judge than if and where it serves me better than MMBasic. Might be a second language for some solutions, but I will never give up MMBasic from my current POV. Gerald 73 de OE1HGA, Gerald |
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phil99 Guru Joined: 11/02/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3325 |
Yes, though only ever a hobby for me. When Silicon Chip published Geoff's first MicroMite** article I abandoned the Arduino as programming in C++ was more of a chore than a hobby. MMBasic is ideal for embedded controllers. ** The original MaxiMite was very interesting but overkill and too expensive for embedded use, compared to discrete logic and op-amps for controlling stuff. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8973 |
I've used Python just a little and I rather like it. I thought of it as a sort of turbo-charged BASIC with a different syntax. My problem here is that there is Python and Python. Raspberry Pi officially support Micropython directly on the Pico. They have educational material for it and it's arguably the best platform for that purpose, even if it doesn't support displays, sound etc.. My last skirmish was with Circuit Python on a Pico, which I think is a good combination and doesn't involve any special hardware unless you want to add the Adafruit modules to it (for which it has generally good support). For handling IO it's very nice. I've also played with Python2 and Python3 under Linux very occasionally, but not a lot. I'm a bit loath to splash out what, for me, is quite a bit of money on pre-built hardware to run yet another version of Python. Yes, it's turning out to be a really capable platform but for me, as a hardware person, I can't see it worth pursuing. It's likely to be one of those things that ends up either shoved in a drawer or spends its days running someone else's code. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 11662 |
My view FWIW Programming in any language is drudge work. I will readily confess to being a crap programmer and always have been throughout my career in IT. What I am (modesty aside) is a very good systems analyst and particularly system architect. I can design and hold complex systems in my head and "see" interactions, opportunities and issues. At work, this is what I did and I had a team of programmers to do the grunt work. Now, with AI, that team is no longer needed and I can translate my ideas to an end result by interactively working with the AI and lead it step by step from a proof of concept test to a final result. My, response to those of you who see AI as a challenge to your hobby is to embrace it, let your creativity take over in envisioning the end result whether it be a game or a pipe bender and use AI to implement your ideas. Then we come to the python question.... The fact is that AI is better at python that probably any other language. massively better than it is at MMBasic and also, in my experience, much better than it is at C or C++. I chose to implement a version of Micropython for the Pico Computer 3 because I had one available and it has all the peripherals needed to do pretty much anything. However, the firmware should run on any RP2350B with PSRAM on pin GP47 and a USB/UART connected to GP8/GP9. The HDMI, DS3231, SDcard, Web controller, USB Hub and DAC are nice to have but not essential. If you have one of the Pimoroni RP2350B boards you can try it. Nothing else except the usb/uart needed. Edited 2026-07-25 18:37 by matherp |
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| karlelch Guru Joined: 30/10/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 339 |
Every language has its place and use case. Python is great because you can start out very easily but you can do also very complex things in an elegant way. A colleague showed my a Python one-liner that implements Conways Game of Life. This is one reason why it is now the predominant language in life science. I just finished teaching a Python class for neuroscience MSc students; all of them were able to finish and present their exam tasks - the solutions the found differed greatly depending on the students previous experience, but all solutions worked. We allowed them to use AI to track errors or solve issues with their own code; they mostly treated the AI like a peer they asked for help. Some preferred actually to ask their more experienced colleagues over AI. In any case, I think even the students without any experience got to a place where they could now use Python for their research projects - and profit from the humongous amount of Python libraries/packages that is out there. For microcontrollers, I used MicroPython and CircuitPython in my hobby projects (check out my GitHub) before I discovered MMBasic. The back to the 80s feeling in combination with its predictability and speed, and its interactive approach convinced me. When controlling hardware and timing is critical, (Micro)pythons has its flaws (or at least had them). For these hobby projects, I clearly prefer MMBasic - but that only reflects my taste and my choice  Cheers Thomas |
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| v.lenzer Senior Member  Joined: 04/05/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 128 |
Since the 1980s, my computer hobby has revolved around Assembly and BASIC. I’ve tried other languages from time to time, but I always found that modern languages didn't allow me to complete my hobby projects any faster or more efficiently. That is why I have stuck with Assembly and BASIC to this day. I was thrilled when I discovered MMBasic and this excellent forum two years ago. MMBasic has been—and remains—perfectly adequate for my needs, and I intend to keep using it. I plan to install MicroPython on one of the three PM3s from my group order so I can try out existing programs—simply out of curiosity and an interest in anything new. For that reason alone, I’m glad to see this project moving forward. And who knows? Maybe I’ll actually manage to get an LED to light up using MicroPython—at least once. Best wishes! Joachim |
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Martin H. Guru Joined: 04/06/2022 Location: GermanyPosts: 1487 |
Hi Volhout, For my part, I focus more on creating art (pixel art and music), and as Basic is the only programming language I can practically think in, it’s my first choice. In my life, I have also written programmes in Assembler, PowerShell, PHP and VB(A). (I have, however, almost completely forgotten everything about PowerShell and PHP.) So far, though, I haven’t had any reason to programme in Python. The younger generation nerds feels the same way about Python. I’ve seen lots of them who can speak and write it fluently. So everyone has their own preferences. If the Pico 3 can do both, that’s one way to help the device gain wider acceptance. Even if some people don’t like it, Basic is now pretty much just a niche product... But I’m sticking with Basic anyway. I use AI to have it explain algorithms to me – how and why they work – and to get suggestions on how to improve them. For example, I had it explain the Atkinson dithering algorithm to me until even I understood it. After all, AI doesn’t get impatient when you keep asking questions. Cheers Martin Edited 2026-07-25 19:28 by Martin H. 'no comment |
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| karlelch Guru Joined: 30/10/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 339 |
I think this is a key point |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8973 |
Thanks for your input, Peter. Interesting point about the firmware. Elemento should have the basic requirements if fitted with a Pimoroni Pico Plus 2, by the looks of things as the PSRAM and GP8/GP9 UART requirements are met. A 4-port USB hub is available by plugging it in. Hmmm... I might be starting a build today as I've just been sorting out a new soldering iron stand first. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2012 |
[sitting, staring at my beloved DIL modules with PSRAM tied to GP0]  No worries....I have a plan SQL: Holy moly I need it Hardware interrupt: Holy moly I need it. This is totally weird. Stuff suddenly appears just when I need it. AI is great because now the Imagineer in me has a chance before I pop me clogs |
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| Gerad Regular Member  Joined: 10/01/2024 Location: GermanyPosts: 57 |
Hi everyone, I love the little Pico2 W—because it can be programmed in BASIC. If I want to work with Python, I use at least a Raspberry Pi 3 or higher. That gives me a much wider selection of software to choose from. If I need it to be really fast, C is really the only option. Thanks, Claude!!! So why Python? Regards Gerard |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3826 |
Well, I have been amazed with what Peter has done with MMBasic and a succession of hardware targets, and I have followed him in his journey from PICAXE since shortly after he left that site. I programmed in my professional career with SPSS (Statistical Package for the Social Sciences), Fortran, Cobol, IBM Assembler, C, and VBA with various database packages. As a hobby, with C, 8080/Z80/68000 assembly, PHP, Lua, javascript, PICAXE Basic, MMBasic, and Annex Basic. Since the beginning of this year I've found that Gemini and Claude code can code interactively in MMBasic (with me in the middle) and then talking directly to RP2350 hardware, and now talking directly to the Pico Computer 3 to program in micropython. It's fantastic, and it prioritized my analyst/designer skills rather than my programming skills. Note that I could not write "Hello, World" in python without looking at the manual. I expect to continue to do my sensor work about the house with MMBasic on Pico 2 Ws. Claude code may write the program, but I'll understand it. I can also figure out what is happening in a python programming, but it's like understanding a foreign language without being able to speak it. I don't expect to become a python programmer--but will guide AI python programmers. All I can say is, What a journey. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on FOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8973 |
I've never been a programmer, except for a small number of jobs at work that involved programming PLCs. The only other programming I've ever done has been for recreation. A lot of that was because I wanted the computer to do something with its hardware, not messing about with databases or systems. On the other hand, my Nascom-1 was something I had to build from a kit. Lots of ICs, a big blank PCB and a book on how to assemble it (we usually referred to it as "the easy book", the other book, on programming, was referred to as "the hard book"!). Then I had to build a power supply (+/- 5V and +/- 12V) for it, and eventually a rack system. I've always been much happier with the hardware, I find it easier to understand than programming, even in BASIC. It's only in the last few years that I've discovered that there is such a thing as SQL. I've never used it and wouldn't know what to do with it if I tripped up over it. lol But to discover the Micromite, a 28-pin chip that does stuff like an expanded Nascom-1, then the PicoMite has been a revelation to me. To have all that GPIO capability supported by MMBasic is amazing to me. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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