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Forum Index : Windmills : Seeley re-configuration
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| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Pic of the first stage of re-configuring the windings --more to come,,, )Oh well ,, pic has to rar zip -- allways something different to what I've been doing in the past like .JPG-- -- --the're out to get me----- I'll get over it =promise" Bruce Bushboy |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Ok ,, we'll see if "he who must be obeyed" is happy this time,, Bruce Bushboy |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Ok,, over that bout of computa stress-- now ,,down to business. I unwound the 1st and 2nd coil windings completly--u could keep the wire or discard it -I discarded it ,,as all the crinkels and bends will add bulk to the final windings.. I will cut and "tail-out" starts and finishes of the coils I want to connect to bussbars for series-parallel connections-- same as F&P re-windings... You will have to purchase some appropriate enammeled wire to re-wind the second and third phase winding coils --- or re-use the recovered stuff , straightening it out carefully ... So, that's about it ,, a time consuming job ,but quite simple , every coil has 38 turns , so that means the frig door should be opened ,,Oh ,, what the heck !!! Have fun yer mate,,Bruce Bushboy |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I think is easy to build a seeley motor from scratch than F&P motor ... Or maybe I am  ...
 Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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Highlander Senior Member  Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Hey Bruce, well that was a pain in the ass. 
Here it is finised, hooray 
prepare yourself for sore fingers. There is a little trick that all rowers will know leukoplast your fingers first. 
Pity I can't drive it 
Ever thought about selling those seeley shafts Bruce? Central Victorian highlands |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Why you don't rotate the rotor like F&P? Use only a half of rotor case or make a wheel welded on a side of rotor to weld an axle. Don't pay a tribute to actual configuration .... Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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vawtman Senior Member Joined: 14/09/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 146 |
Bruce Just wondering why you decided to reconfigure? Nice job though. Tip one for me. |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
The reason I pulled the coils off was the stator was faulty,short in some wiring,,had to find it .. The other reason I started was to find out how difficult it would be to re-configure ,,similar to what we do with the F&P . I've a re-winding friend who gave me heaps of new wire so I may try different sizes or "two-in-hand" wiring . I've not continued with the winding yest as I've lots of other things to be done around here,,But if anyone has results from these Seeley's ,like rpm/output watts Etc , please post your results. This will save a lot of unnecessary work . Thank You Bruce Bushboy |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Bruce, make tests with only one coil (remember the procedure from Hugh and Otherpower). See the results, then make an entire phase. You can use the old wire for tests (if is long enough)... I know you worked hard, maybe have another motor with shorted coils (cut them all)... Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
I'd like to see a sketch of the original configuration please? was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Hi Gill, 20 coils in series by three phases. 20 magnets each coil has almost the same length of copper as fp, 60 coils on seeley 42 on fp, so roughly 50% more copper. Magnets Don't seem as strong, stuff em anyway I'm going neo. Central Victorian highlands |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Hi Bruce, just one point that I wish I had told you about before your rewire... I found that increasing my magnet bulk on the seely resulted in higher output, but substantially greater iron loss which may cause stall problems with much stronger Neo's (mine were bigger ferrites and made a unusually large difference to the iron loss. On closer inspection, the wire wraps under the coils are NOT insulated from each other, so you can expect enourmous (comparatively) eddy losses AND iron losses. Sorry I could not get to you sooner with this info (when you had an empty stator), so you could remedy this strange manufacturing oversight (seeley should have known we were going to use this motor as a genny :) ). With the original mag config, it was not very apparent. As a motor it may not have been an issue (just like cogging isn't when F&P runs as a motor), but as a genny with limited starting torque, the Neo's may hold it in stall until a reasonable wind gets up to overcome eddy and iron loss, and if you do get going , overheating from the wire band may (and maybe not ) cause extra thermal problems for us. Thus far at 1.4kw@ 540rpm the stator has not warmed the coils up much at all. (HV load 450W/phase) All the best ......oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Thanks for the info Ozzie,,, I haven't had time to re-wind yet,actually waiting for any other guys that may be more advanced and take their advice. I'm busy fabricating a new "geared" platform for Trev's new 14 foot Fibreglas blades and playing around with my own ABS plastic blades (which seem to be great). Now , if that silver wire is a nuisance in our applictaion , and needs removing ,then I think we may be able to cut a strand or two within the internal perimeter and gently pull them out ,eventually removing the lot ?. Maybe. The re-winding is going to be time consuming ,but 'doable'. The new windings have to be decided on yet,,any thoughts out there???. I'll go with the original magnets and magnet band at this stage ,because I ,ve an idea that mechanically isolates the stress from the plastic covers almost completly,whilst driving the rotor. ( that's being incorporated into the new gearde platform with ribbed driving belts and interchangable size drive pulleys.(simple timing pulleys off wrecked car engines.free if you are lucky,$5 if you go begging for them at spare parts junk yards). Bye the way,I've been seeing 300-600 watts and peaks of 800 watts from my .6mm series/parallel star F&P lately with our 30 kph westerly winds. Bruce Bushboy |
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| vawtman Senior Member Joined: 14/09/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 146 |
Welcome aboard oz Thats weird that the seeley stator was uninsulated and has such thick wire with only plastic around it. Must have been designed to barely do its job.Of course thats not unusual nowadays. Im seriously considering using fine rusty wire and sealing it.Rust is good for eddy. Ah a name for the beast Everybody here is very nice. |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Hi Bruce. Nice output from the F&P there. We will need iron of some form inside the copper to draw the flux through the coils. The magnets on the seely are close packed, and so without something to attract some flux through the coils, a good deal would leak to the magnet beside it rather than doing our bidding. So we should have steel inside the coils, but it needs to be insulated to stop the high eddy currents. Vawtman's idea of the rusty wire is probably the ticket here. Zubbly feels the same way.... He feels that throwing the wire in the barbeque, and pulling it out after it's cooked, will burn off the zinc coating for us. If we then place it in water and then air dry it, we should end up with a wire finely coated with rust.... a very good insulator.... (now if this doesn't work, you can re-stoke the fire and have a barby anyway..... so not all is lost.) As I said earlier, the original mags are weak enough that their eddy and iron loss does not appear all that challenging to startup, but if you (or someone else) decide to go neo,(or you stack a heap of ferrite's like I did), it will be a totally different story in this regard. The power curves for my conversion are on the fieldlines story I did. With your current mags, output will be about 1/2 at those RPM. NOTE: my load was HV resistance which matched the impedance of the seely stator rather well. If you choose to direct drive a battery bank (via bridge rectifier), your stator will get dangerously hot at about 8amps and up You will top out at maybe 12A or so with the stator thinking about glowing in the dark I suspect. The stator in star is about 15 ohms, so directly driving the batteries soaks up most of the power in the stator, not the load. For the original setup (38 turns per coil) your getting about 1v per coil per 100rpm .. based on my test run of 25v/120rpm with original mag band. So pick your cutin rpm, current required, and pole count and wind away. So easy if you say it quickly. On a completly different topic.. I did some free work for the local power station, and it looks like I will get a defunct 500,000W alternator for free..... now what to do with that! Haven't seen it yet, and have no idea what to do with it, but I'm excited anyway. Interested to see your "gearbox" and the results of your rewind. ........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Bruce, 1 more thing Re: kinky wire. As i don't have a friendly rewire shop around the corner, I have been forced to find a way to straighten the copper wire after unwinding it from field coils etc. Best method so far is to place three round plastic pegs (6mm diam) close together (a few mm apart in straight line) thread the wire through this in a kinked straight line and pull it onto a former you are going to store it on. The act of going around the tight center peg seems to straighten the wire out to pristine condition, and has the added benefit of peeling off most of any lacquer that may have been left on it from it's previouse application. I'm open to better suggestions, but this seems to work well thus far. ........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| vawtman Senior Member Joined: 14/09/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 146 |
Im thinkin of using the steel from the tread section of a tire. Cutting off the sidewalls just below the wire section. Im sure somebody here was naughty and threw a tire in the fire not me yet but wonder is it one band of wire or little sections? By the time the rubber is gone everything would be annealed also and just need acid rain. Oz you want keep the wire just behind the coils like the seeley otherwise cogging will come into play. |
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| Gill Senior Member Joined: 11/11/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 669 |
G'day vawtman, Tread wire may be of little use as it is short diagonal pieces, where as the rim section forming the bead has 4 or more coils and this will be more suited.  was working fine... til the smoke got out. Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ |
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| vawtman Senior Member Joined: 14/09/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 146 |
Thanks Gill
I just threw a roll of galvanized steel cable in the firepit. I think that might be better suited after your suggestion.
G'day or night too you also. |
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Megawatt Man Senior Member Joined: 03/05/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 119 |
Don't breathe much of the fumes coming off the fire while the zinc is being burned. Zinc usually contains some arsenic and that's the reason these days people don't like welding gal. Megawatt Man |
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