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Forum Index : Windmills : VAWT and F&P recomendations
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Hi Bart. From memory Ed Lenz said the Lenz2 runs at less than 1 tsr ( tip speed to wind ratio ) loaded, its max power is at something like 0.8 of wind speed. Its a combination drag and lift machine. Unloaded it will run much faster, like 2 tsr. Its very similar to the Ropatec design, and just as quiet. Thats a nice looking windmill your building there. I'm a fan of the slow running verticles, they are a bit like watching fish, sort of relaxing 
Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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BartHermans Newbie  Joined: 19/01/2008 Location: BelgiumPosts: 10 |
Finally, after a lot of days full of rain, the sun in shining in Belgium. So,I've made a concrete plate for my Savonius. It's still wet, so I can mount the windmill next weekend. There was a lot of wind the last few weeks in my parents garden and without the concrete plate the Savonius always went down on his side. Wait and see next week, so the experiment can finally start. Greatings from the sunny side of Europe. It's 16°C, the highest temperature ever measured in February. It feels like spring at this moment. Bart. |
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mekanizmalar Newbie Joined: 14/02/2008 Location: TurkeyPosts: 2 |
Hi Bart, I just joined this discussion forum when I see your post. Yes, your design will work. Actually I was working on similar concept. I am about to build similar savonius turbine with flaps. It is also possible to build a turbine which is hybrid between drag and lift type turbine and self starting. There is no need to put any mechanism for adjusting flaps for wind direction. Here is the turbine I build by using small flaps made of paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0V0GXYeFgM or http://www.mekanizmalar.com/check_valve_turbine.shtml mekanizmalar |
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| Jarbar Senior Member  Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hello Bart,I also have an interest in VAWT and am in the midst of development.So far my developments are only prototypes in a makeshift windtunnel.I am also interested in where you reside in Belgium as my wife is from Gent. Anthony. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| BartHermans Newbie Joined: 19/01/2008 Location: BelgiumPosts: 10 |
Mekanizmalar, Thank you very much for your post. Your test case shows exactly what I want to test with my design. It's already turning well in the wind without those flaps (just plain plastics now). The concrete of last weekend is hard now, so this weekend I'll anchor the windmill on it. If you're intrested I'll make a little video of it when it's turning. The thing I want to know is that the windmill with the flaps has a better performance than without it... I'm only afraid of the noise it's going to make. At this moment it's turning, even very hard sometimes. When I saw your video on YouTube, I saw exactly the behaviour that I had in mind ! Greatings. Bart. |
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| BartHermans Newbie Joined: 19/01/2008 Location: BelgiumPosts: 10 |
Jarbar, My design is not at all professional  , it's just for fun. How did you make your makeshift windtunnel ?
(Aangezien je vrouw in Gent woont, neem ik aan dat jij ook in België zal wonen. De windmolen staat bij mijn ouders in Sint Amands (aan de Schelde).) But let us keep the correspondence in English so everybody can follow the conversation 
Bart. |
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| mekanizmalar Newbie Joined: 14/02/2008 Location: TurkeyPosts: 2 |
Hi Bart, I will be very happy to see your video when it is ready. Yes the turbine will be more efficient with flaps. For example my turbine would not rotate if there were no flaps. Because air would act with the same force on two sails facing the wind. I am working on a new turbine to prove this concept (flaps increase efficiency). I will let you know when it is ready. Regards mekanizmalar |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hello Bart.I found this site which may be helpfull regarding speed measurement.http://www.reuk.co.uk/Use-a-Cycle-Computer-to-Me asure-Turbine-RPM.htm Still learning to navigate this forum and only saw your VAWT today.Great effort.It makes me smile to see others on a similar mindset. The wind tunnel is just two air curtain fans that allow me to do static torque tests with a digital spring balance.So far I have managed a 25/30% improvement in torque with my experiments.But still the issue of slow rotational speed persists with direct drive of F&P.And so now I am looking at gearing up the F&P generators.I am hoping to achieve that this week.Seeing there's a Belgian with a similar mindset,my wife might let out to the garage do it.And Nancy lives in Australia. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| BartHermans Newbie Joined: 19/01/2008 Location: BelgiumPosts: 10 |
After being sick for a whole week and two weekends, I've mounted the windturbine on the concrete plate. At this moment I've used plain plastic to cover the wings.  
Even in very slow winds, the wind mill is already turning. When there's a lot of wind, the speed of the rotations are changing a lot. About the 'flaps': I've mounted one paper flap to see whats happing. When there's a lot of wind, the flap remains closed and only opens a little time. The flap is pressed against the wire because of the wind circulation in the wind mill. But before to continue these tests, I'll have to make a measuring system. Greatings. |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hi Bart' that sickness must be catching.I too have and still am bed ridden.And today (lot's of wind) was a perfect day for a test.Oh well!Ingenuity plus with the swiveling chair base.You can even raise and lower it! If you were to use the rubber matting made for fish pond linnings and make a hole punch from some 50mm x50mm or 75mm x75mm square tube.Grind 3 sides to a sharp edge and relieve the fouth edge so as not to cut.Then proceed to create a pattern of equidistant flaps across the area needed to cover your metal mesh.This would be resonably hard wearing and light weight.Attach with cable ties.Many Stopkens and Hop Duivels can be consumed watching it rotate.Salue. My last post link for cycle computer wind speed measurement didn't go directly to said info.But if you type in RPM on the search bit of that site it comes up anyway. Anthony. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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azland00123 Newbie Joined: 24/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 23 |
I love this forum I could read for ever. Too bad I have to go to work tomorrow Bob |
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| BartHermans Newbie Joined: 19/01/2008 Location: BelgiumPosts: 10 |
Anthony (Jarbar), this weekend a lot of wind blow out one plastic plate that I've mounted on the front of the wind mill. In fact, I was not surprised that this would happen one day. The plastic was only 0.4mm thick. It's blown out from the inside (incoming wind through the wind mill). I'm thinking of some other material to use now. This kind of windy weather is not to be called 'normal' in Belgium, but it was a good test. By the way, the Duivel factory is only 10 Km from where I'm living , but I'm living most of the time on coffee  .
I have no experience with "rubber matting made for fish pond linnings", but some kind of rubber seams to be the way to go. I'm gonna check this out. Plain plastic is noisy in windy situations. You are going to use a F&P (Fisher & Paykel) generator, is that a recuperated washing machine generator ? Like this one : http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_103664/article.html Greatings. Bart |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hello Bart, yes the site you posted uses the same F&P generator as mine.Like you I have been focused on the turbine design and finally tommorrow it should be erected for a live test.At the moment I have fitted a single F&P generator but have still to do the electical modifications to it.This will be the hardest part for me but plenty of info and others on this site to help.The rubber matting is about 1.0 mm thick.As far as wind in Belgium goes I can remember the wielrenners and me in the peleton fighting some serious cross winds.Requiring many watts of human power. Greatings Anthony "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| BartHermans Newbie Joined: 19/01/2008 Location: BelgiumPosts: 10 |
Anthony, How was the live test of your new turbine ? I didn't had the time to get to a store for the rubber matting. I hope I'll get it next weekend. Where's your turbine design based on ? Mine's based on the drawing : http://www.picoturbine.com/projectlist.htm You can find the "PicoTurbine Deluxe Educational Windmill Kit Beta Plans" and on the last page a template is drawn. That's the one I've used, but I've scaled it to 3 meters. Greatings.  |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hello Bart,yes today was THE day.Out of bed at 6am and in the garage for one more final modification(I wish)6 hours later and hurray the eagle has landed.Up up and away my beautifull windmill.Looks like a UFO in drag(pun intended).Not a lot of wind but glorious to watch.I am contemplating another on top. But before it drops out of the tree and becomes my disarster I need to fit a fall arrestor.So off to the auto wreckers for a seat belt tensioner.As for the design it's a combination of 5 years of model testing and everything I could glean off the net.And then adding it all together.Is it efficent only time will tell.Yours is massive at 3 meters mine is only 1 meter dia.But it's all good fun.I hope to try the counter rotating at some stage also.From the sounds of silence VAWT if I can figure out how to upload a video I'll post that soon.Got to get back to my forbidden fruit(Belgian beer) and pat myself on the back yet again.What a day.And it even looks like it's grid connected. Anthony 
 "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Opps forgot to hit the enter button on the last image,sorry. Anthony "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Jarbar, What happened to the preview post button? Please, Jarbar or Gizmo fix the photo problem. cheers, Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Hi Gordon, I did preview the post but assumed it had only accepted 3 photos as the fourth didnt show up.As I said I forgot to push the enter key.If someone knows how to fix the photos position go for it or delete it! My chronic fatigue was well embeded by hour 15 yesterday.I will need a week in bed to recover. Anthony  "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi jarbar, This editing photo problem has come before. You and Gizmo are only 2 who can edit your posting. Just hit the EDIT button, that only you will see on your posting. You will see the full hypertext coding. At the correct place, just insert a return and the problem should be fixed. cheers, Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| Jarbar Senior Member Joined: 03/02/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 225 |
Gordon, I got it this time thanks for your help. "Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father "Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather. |
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